Ted thanks for the very helpful and detailed reply. It's good to have my suspicion confirmed. Besides my Turbo's Bose, I have Mark Levinson in a Lexus GX470 and agree with you. Among OEM systems, Mark Levinson does the least harm to the sound, and this is really all that one could hope for -- do no harm.
FWIW, Ian's voice was recorded with U-57 and Mastering Lab tube mic pre so her voice is quite smooth - but Telefunken mics is definitely not my field of expertise :-). Point is any system that makes this cd sounds bright is most likely tuned too hot.

1. Do you happen to remember what the 4 sitting position settings, and the 4 sound processing settings are please?

2. I thought the sitting position setting is a fader function, and not sound processing. Not true?

 

Ahh, my buddy Doug Sax designed that pre. He does a lot of my mastering. It's very nice He has some killer mics too. It's the AMT drivers, shouldn't have used them. You get intoxicated by their clarity and openness only to be slapped in the face with their artifacts when mis appropriately applied as in this case. It's the same way with ribbon studio speakers too, must be set up and monitored properly. Even then a lot of engineers don't like them.

The seating position should be set to the middle button, "Symmetrical". Turn off all of the other crap. Center the eq, fader, etc..

And don't expect everything to sound right as it does in the Lexus. Expect some things, such as jazz fusion, orchestral, to sound outstanding though.

 

Thanks. I'll try "Symmetrical" next time. I was concentrating on the FRONT setting for seating position, hoping to get the soundstage in front of me.

Speaking of soundstage, this would be my second (mild) disappointment of the Burmester system. I was hoping the soundstage would be a little more forward, in front of me. In the Panamera's Burmester, soundstage is not forward enough, with singer for example not in front of me on dashboard, but almost at my level (I know, audiophile nuttiness is my problem .). Any opinion on this? I don't think so but is this because I had turned off the Burmester's sound processing?

Anyway, despite of the brightness problem, I think if it were available on the Turbo, I would still get it. With treble turned down to -4 (??), I found the sound more than acceptable, actually wonderful, and would be bettered ONLY by a very high end after-market system. I found the bass/drum to be exceptionally tight, tuneful, and powerful for an OEM system. Also, as you might have already noted, the clarity and transparency is simply breathtaking.

OT: Re. Doug Sax, I assume you're in the business; he does mastering for you? Me, merely an over-the-edge audiophile who has bought cd in the past based on who the sound engineer is LOL.

 

Ted,

Familiar with Bob Woods and Telarc? They had some phenomenal recordings, local to us as well (well used to be when woods was there).

I used a lot of their recordings as reference utilizing Krell Theater with B&W 801 speakers back in the day... also some Logans...

I have a local producer I did a 911 for this past spring that that wanted a 5.1 system... it crushes the Burmester system, though was almost double the price... I believe, though the 911 had nothing but a base system, that with the Panamera PCM and a few speakers and an amp upgrade, it would outperform the Burmester system and be almost around the same price.

 

When I see post like this I get a little agitated...The ****pits of both automobiles are completely different...You can't just swap speakers and expect the same sound...been there done that..."a few speakers and an amp upgrade"...that's like saying a 970TT is a bigger 998, it's just not so.

 

Actually the c0ckpit of the Panamera would be way easier do to it being larger.

This isn't my first day with mobile audio or enhancing the sound in a vehicle either... and I am not talking adding 4 woofers and 6 tweeters

 

Agreed 100% re. Telarc! I have many of their recordings, and Telarc's Pictures at an Exhibition (engineered by Jack Renner) is one of my all time favorites. If you want bass and drum whacks that might just send the woofers out of their mounting brackets , this is the one! I have a Krell amp myself (FPB 600) and this record has never ceased to impress in a demo.

Agreed re. Burmester vs. after-market. I have little doubt a good after-market system will be the best. In fact, the best Porsche system I've heard is similar to what you mentioned: an after-market system by a Los Angeles installer in a 997 that started with the base audio system. Smooth high, truthful mid, tuneful and *powerful* bass, beautiful soundstage in front of driver.

I think however the idea of some electronic fault causing PCM problem is what gives owners second thought about non-OEM system -- and this is where the advantage of the Burmester comes in. I could imagine dealers trying to blame any and all problems with PCM to an after-market installation.

 

I hear you on the PCM problems, it was a pretty bad design, though a very nice system. They had the right idea, but somewhere the software went estrange. When I integrate into the PCM's 2.1, 3.0, or 3.1's; it is a combination of a Porsche harness and the use of a PIWIS II Tester. I would love for a dealer to tell me that it was caused by adding speakers and an amp, I'd bet the car on it that it wouldn't be.

Seeing that most Porsche dealers, parts, sales, and techs (again stating most) have no clue, besides already knowing there are issues, anything about the PCM's. You should hear my adding satellite radio OEM integration fiasco... just dumb! and Porsche USA is no help with Germany caring less.

 

Sound like you are a professional installer? Question please: AFAIK, the Porsche Burmester system uses a class D/switching amp for the woofer.
Your opinion on this?

In home audio, class D amp is not normally used in a serious system; is the situation the same in car audio? (I was a bit surprised to see it in the $5000 Panamera application, but don't know if this is the norm in car audio.)

 

For what it's worth my Mark Levinson (Lexus) system uses a class D amp. The sound blows away the Burmester, IMO. Just sayin...

 

in home audio serious systems, people listen to real music and tend to understand what is supposed to be there naturally. especially with harmonics and sub harmonics, class D... well you kind of don't get that. Class D amplifiers in a nut shell, amplifies the input signal really fast, then runs it through a capacitor/coil filter to smooth it out, otherwise it would be all square waves...
Further, the 300 watts they need to make the sub work is cheaper to produce with the class D and is a smaller footprint then a class a/b which most use.
also the power requirements of the electrical system for that 300 watts is way less than a class A/B which would probably be 30 amps.

Another positive is that the human ear is not as sensitive to the distortion of the bass allowing for it to be a bit more sloppy on the lower end

there are companies that have been working on making the D better, like JL Audio and Bang and Olufsen which basically added a feedback loop into the signal for comparing the input to the output waves with correction. not bad, but I am sure the critical listener that loves music or listens to a lot of well recorded music would notice a lot of the missing nuances that make up music.

I use a lot of audison stuff for the vehicles, especially the LRx 5.1k which uses a biasing circuit to appear class A sound for tweeters, an AB section to power the mids, and a D class for the woofer, all in 1 amp. Very nice set up, and they did a great job

One day I will test the Burmester amplifier to see what it has in it... I wouldn't be surprised if it was all chips with more money spent on marketing.

 

^^^JBondox, thanks for sharing your (excellent) knowledge and experience.
ophtho, thanks -- I too have a Lexus, also the wife's car. It seems like switching amp for the low end is a routine practice for car audio then.

Below is some info on the Burmester that might be of interest to owners. Only 12 kg -- that's pretty light.
>>>>>>>
http://www.whathifi.com/news/Burmest...sche-Panamera/
The 16-speaker system has taken five years to develop and includes a 10in subwoofer, ribbon tweeters, and a combination of Class-A/B and Class-D amplifiers. The whole system weighs in at less than 12kg and harbours more than 1000W of power.

Also ran across this interesting GT3/Audison system:
http://caraudiomag.com/articles/porsche-911-gt3-install

 

thats a nice install in the GT3, I tried the side position sub before, but never liked the results, the factory Bose speaker is using the floor with a port to achieve the sound (floor loading the woofer) having the woofer firing off into nothingness never gave the impact I was searching for.

Oh poop, that is my buddy Bing that did the installation... I gotta mess with him now for the wiring mess up front.