Yes that is what I was talking about too. I thought that all the 65 amg had the v12 biturbo's, not sure what you meant about the performance package. I was referring to the previous years not the future one.
Anyway I am glad I was not off on that one, thought I was losing it!

 

love the thread. some perspective. i owned a 2007 cl 63 amg with the v12 bi turbo and it was an amazing car. i loved everything about it except the cost of insurance. that motor was a gift from god. the torque was like nothing else.

I now have a s63 AMG that i am selling to get into the Panamera turbo. I love the S63 but MB makes a luxury car first and then makes it sporty/ performance oriented. The porsche philosophy is the other way around and it suites me. I'm a driving/ performance oriented driver. This, in my mind, is the biggest difference between the two. Porsche has more of a performance driving philosophy about it. MB makes terrific engines but the handling is not nearly what a Porsche will be. Hands down. I echo the sentiment of the earlier comment about MB resale value- it sucks. Either way, I think you'll like your new ride. MB makes great looking cars.

 

...almost forgot. MB quality had declined A LOT over the years and i saw this first hand with both my cars. see consumer reports.

 

Just so you know the Panny TT has the lowest resdidual value of all the Pannys - residual is 45% after 3 only years vs. 57% for PannyS..... so you might be disappointed about the resale value of the PTT

This year I sold my AMG CLS55 2006 model - had low miles (only 22k) and I got 50c on the dollar after 5 years, so its all relative.

In the end - all preium performance vehicles depreciate much faster than regular cars, just the nature of the market.

 

MB is supposed to be luxury manuf but Porsche still feels more luxurious

Porsche is supposed to be sporty and is definitely more sporty than AMG

AMG's usually have dull & boring interiors. In Porsche you can choose any interior color for any model whether PS, P4S or PTT

MB makes everything including, B-Class which is a disgrace to MB name based on build quality, interior materials smell, etc. If you buy a CLS63 that MB badge is shared with so many other models

Every new model Porsche introduced, they have tried to set new (higher) standards in that industry segment, not just offer a compromise

My friends owing MB are sometimes spending more on a single dealer visit than my combined spending on all the Porsches I have owned over the years. I do like MB but I dont want to buy their product & reward them for being lousy.

MB is usually the first "dream" German car people buy because of its history. Porsche is the ultimate German car they own.

I recently drove the S 63 and CL 63, the gears take so long to shift even in manual mode that you can have a cup of coffee between gear shifts LOL

The only MB I think of buying again is G-Class. But then, how difficult is it fro MB to upgrade those window lifters which have been breaking down on the G-Class for the last 10 model years? This is what I am talking about when I say MB is lousy.

The only way I would readily buy a MB is if it cost 50% less than a similar Porsche.

Yes - I am biased - but then MB needs to wake up too.

 

Looks like you have already made up your mind. Do what makes you happy, that is the most important. Both are great cars, I just prefer my Porsche over any AMG, but then I'm biased.

Good luck.

Cheers,

 

Ummm....Premium for Panamera is for the brand name = Porsche.

Thats really about it unless we start splitting hairs. Yes performance is there for such a large barge, but thats expected.

We all paid extra for the name - nobody wants to admit as everyone thinks themselves above this, but we all know inside that branding is there -- Porsche is selling you a lifestyle. The bottom line is every 20 something has a C class...and its annoying when you're driving a 160 K Mercedes. If that doesn't matter to you, go for the AMG, she's a fine car and looks great too!

I keep seeing these Audi A3's...and thinking to myself, if I had an A8, I really would have felt like I overpaid; ditto the S Class if I saw a C. Its too much money for what it is.

 

I would say, put the deposite down and decide after you drive both when the CLS become available.

 

Thanks. You must have read my mind. That's exactly what I believe I'm going to do. Deposit is refundable.

 

Great, sensible, advice!

Make rational decision based on how the make you feel. But I am still not sure that "rational" is a word that should be used when deciding on this segment of cars. There is nothing rational about paying $100k + for a car - its pure emotion, how the car makes you feel, but by trying out both, at least the decision will be "rational"

 

 

I completely disagree. The interior on the Panamera is far nicer looking than my last 5 Mercedes, the steering wheel buttons on the MB are infuriating, COMAND if far inferior to the PCM, and as JD Power surveys have shown, MB's are much more problematic. Also, MB took the cheaper route when speccing out their Brembo braking systems than Porsche does.

Unfortunately you have had issues with your Panamera and ours is only 6 weeks old, but we got rid of our 2009 SL550 after 10 months due to issues, and the E55 before that was in service every 3 months. MB may be getting better, but they have a long way to go. Having owned 6 MB over the past 15 years, I will not own another. My Audi is built better, and the Panamera is inspiring. It may not be a 911, but it's pretty fun to drive-even the 6 cylinder (in sports mode though).

I have never owned a Porsche before, but from what I can see of the product they are putting out now, it is first rate.

 

Seems like everyone has had a different experience

Like DHH I never had a problem on the several AMG's I had owned - not a sigle one over a 7 year period. And like DR Chill, not a single problem with my PannyS so far - only had it for 5 months so time will tell regarding ultimate reliability.

Definitely a common experience for those coming from the AMG brand is that will be HUGELY disappointed by the engine in the Panny S, and ultimately we all wish we had bought the Turbo. On the other hand the $30-$50k delta between the S and the Turbo is definitely off-putting.

One thing that I am hoping for is that this Panny forum turns into an enthusiast forum, and that there are guys that are tuning, autocrossing, and developing their cars - not just cosmetic touches like wheels, trim etc. Not that ther is anything wrong with that. Its just that I want to knwo more about what is under the sheet metal.

What I loved about the AMG forums was the amount of knowledge that was released into the open about what everyone had found out about the ECU's, the TCU's, the pulley's, the boost, the intercoolers etc. As a community the AMG crowd was very helpful an deducating each other. I am hoping that as the number of Pannys increase and more are attracted to this platform, we will see a similar sharing of knowledge.

In the meantime I am still hoping that someone will educate me on how to completely disable PSM

 

i have p4s that i got for the awd and im happy with overall package. if awd not an issue, then amg cls is good alternative if saves $30k over p4s. my p4s was about $110 so can you really buy new cls for $80?

 

The current naturally aspirated AMG CLS63/ E63's sell for $95k - 110K depending on options, but completely outperform the engine of the Panny S in terms of horspower and torque. The Panny Turbo is closer to their performance - (slightly above IMO) - and this is where the $30-$50,000 difference comes in.

The new soon to be released AMGCLS63TT will now be a twin turbo and initial output numbers look slightly above the PannyTT

• New AMG CLS63TT = 550HP , 590 ft lbs
• Panny TT = 500HP, 516 ft lbs

Of course a car is more than just the engine, but with those numbers, if the new AMG CLS63TT sells for $110,000 fully loaded, then I suspect it will sell way more units than a fully loaded PannyTT at $155,000