Should I start the battle to return my 2009 997.2 C4 cab
#1
10-08-2009, 08:18 AM
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Northern California
Posts: 112
Rep Power: 32 
Should I start the battle to return my 2009 997.2 C4 cab
I have just returned (without my car) from the dealership due to the latest mechanical/system failures with my car and I would like some input before I start to seek redress from the dealer and/or PCNA.
In the past 50 days, the following things have failed/broken on my car (5600 miles, purchased 6 months ago):
- High pressure fuel pump - without car for 17 days
- Right rear tire - replaced, without car for 4 days
- Right rear tire (yes, the one that I just replaced) - repaired
- Windshield cracked - replaced
- Drive off assistant - at dealer, still being diagnosed. the dealer says the car is not safe to drive because the failure can keep the car from going into gear (not sure how that is possible since it is a manual)
- Air conditioning system failure - at dealer, still being diagnosed
- Radiator fan control failure - at dealer, still being diagnosed
On average, it has taken 4 - 5 days alone for parts to arrive so that repairs can be attempted and the dealer currently has no ETA on when they will know the source of the latest three problems.
Like most of you, I consider myself an auto enthusiast and I felt tremendous pride when I was finally able to buy my first 911. Needless to say, my disappointment in the quality of the car, it's fragility (tires/glass), and Porsche's parts inventory/shipping practices is extremely high.
I now have zero confidence in this particular vehicle and my confidence in Porsche quality overall is quite low.
What do all of you think, have I reached sufficient critical mass to be justified in seeking to return my vehicle? If so, what process would you suggest I take? I have not yet involved the GM at my dealership or called PCNA (I am planning to do both ).
In the past 50 days, the following things have failed/broken on my car (5600 miles, purchased 6 months ago):
- High pressure fuel pump - without car for 17 days
- Right rear tire - replaced, without car for 4 days
- Right rear tire (yes, the one that I just replaced) - repaired
- Windshield cracked - replaced
- Drive off assistant - at dealer, still being diagnosed. the dealer says the car is not safe to drive because the failure can keep the car from going into gear (not sure how that is possible since it is a manual)
- Air conditioning system failure - at dealer, still being diagnosed
- Radiator fan control failure - at dealer, still being diagnosed
On average, it has taken 4 - 5 days alone for parts to arrive so that repairs can be attempted and the dealer currently has no ETA on when they will know the source of the latest three problems.
Like most of you, I consider myself an auto enthusiast and I felt tremendous pride when I was finally able to buy my first 911. Needless to say, my disappointment in the quality of the car, it's fragility (tires/glass), and Porsche's parts inventory/shipping practices is extremely high.
I now have zero confidence in this particular vehicle and my confidence in Porsche quality overall is quite low.
What do all of you think, have I reached sufficient critical mass to be justified in seeking to return my vehicle? If so, what process would you suggest I take? I have not yet involved the GM at my dealership or called PCNA (I am planning to do both ).
#2
10-08-2009, 08:25 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Natick, MA
Age: 50
Posts: 3,122
Rep Power: 161
Fuel pump, AC, transmission issues do not smell good. How did you get windshield cracked? That`s not a common thing.
If you can press them into new car - do it. But after almost 6K miles, well, still worth to try it. I would.
Worst what may happen will be having back your repaired car anyway, right?
If you can press them into new car - do it. But after almost 6K miles, well, still worth to try it. I would.
Worst what may happen will be having back your repaired car anyway, right?
#3
10-08-2009, 08:29 AM
Not sure how the tires and windshield problem are "lemonable". The other problems typically require the dealer a few attempts to fix. You have to check w/ your state lemon laws. You may also be required to involve PCNA. I would make your dissatisfaction known to the dealer (polite but firm) and start a process w/ PCNA. Not all Porsche dealers are equally competent/capable. Whether another Porsche dealer would be better is something you can explore w/ the PCNA rep. I can appreciate your frustration, but your experience is not typical.
#4
10-08-2009, 08:34 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Natick, MA
Age: 50
Posts: 3,122
Rep Power: 161
Also, just curious - what dealership was it?
#5
10-08-2009, 08:45 AM
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Northern California
Posts: 112
Rep Power: 32
Herb Chambers in Burlington, but, in all fairness, I don't think the dealership has done anything wrong. I think we're both playing with the cards that have been dealt (relative to the quality of this particular vehicle).
#6
10-08-2009, 08:56 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Natick, MA
Age: 50
Posts: 3,122
Rep Power: 161 I think Westwood dealership has much better service facility and frankly service manager Sean there is a WAY nicer guy to deal with. I went to Burlington only once and after that was dealing with Sean only.
#7
10-08-2009, 09:46 AM
Tires and Windshield? Seems like those are just there to make your list longer but don't support your case, unless there's a heck of a story there.
Otherwise Lemon returns are usually for 3 attempts to solve and an unsolvable problem or some long period where you don't have your car - not counting time to order parts. HPHP issue could border on that.
That car definitely has had an inordinate amount of problems but if they fix them, not sure what you can do...
http://autopedia.com/html/LemonLaw/MA_lemonlaw2.html
Otherwise Lemon returns are usually for 3 attempts to solve and an unsolvable problem or some long period where you don't have your car - not counting time to order parts. HPHP issue could border on that.
That car definitely has had an inordinate amount of problems but if they fix them, not sure what you can do...
http://autopedia.com/html/LemonLaw/MA_lemonlaw2.html
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#8
10-08-2009, 02:26 PM
The high pressure fuel pump issues on some cars is a known problem. Its not clear which pumps can fail, but clearly a bad design or badly manufactured batch of pumps is in some cars. By all accounts, those are being addressed as they become known, though the supply of new fuel pumps is limited and can require some time to get new pumps to dealers.
Tires and wheels, unless it was a manufacturing problem, I don't see how that is a Porsche issue. Combine the tires issue with the windshield (what went wrong with the windshield ) and I'm wondering about the roads and environment you drive in. That would certainly not be a Porsche issue. If the windshield was damaged from the factory or improperly installed... that would be a Porsche issue.
Now the A/C, Radiator Fan control and Drive Off Assist sound like issues to stay on top of that Porsche should be responsible for. If all 3 are related, it suggests an electrical/wiring issue. I'm curious about what the dealer finds.
Tires and wheels, unless it was a manufacturing problem, I don't see how that is a Porsche issue. Combine the tires issue with the windshield (what went wrong with the windshield ) and I'm wondering about the roads and environment you drive in. That would certainly not be a Porsche issue. If the windshield was damaged from the factory or improperly installed... that would be a Porsche issue.
Now the A/C, Radiator Fan control and Drive Off Assist sound like issues to stay on top of that Porsche should be responsible for. If all 3 are related, it suggests an electrical/wiring issue. I'm curious about what the dealer finds.
#9
10-08-2009, 03:27 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: City of Angels
Posts: 472
Rep Power: 39
I had a G55 AMG, and Loved the car to death, it made to much damn noise from the motor (not a normal noise) and the dealer couldnt fix it ... they took the car back no questions and I had it for 2 years 20,000miles... the easiest way to lemon a car is if it has issues that will put you in danger (airbag, brakes things like that) but if the car isnt 100% to your satisfaction you can lemon it, its just harder to do. I dont mean if you dont like how it drives, im talking about noises, are things that bother you...
#10
10-08-2009, 03:54 PM
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Northern California
Posts: 112
Rep Power: 32 Hi Everyone,
First and foremost, thank you all for your candid and objective input. That's exactly what I needed because, as you can imagine, I'm somewhat emotionally engaged in this issue and I wanted to make sure that I'm viewing it as fairly as possible.
To everyone that has asked, 70-80% of my driving is on the highway (the mass pike to be specific) and the rest is around Boston. Everyone who has said that the tires are not specifically Porsche's fault is right (I call them the way I see them!) . . . a lot of that comes down to bad luck during normal (i.e. 70-80mph on the highway) driving. The primary issue I have with the tires is how long it takes to replace an OEM tire . . . I just struggle with 3 - 4 days being reasonable in this day and age.
As for the windshield, neither I nor the dealer could figure that one out. It just developed a crack in the lower right corner and there was no clear sign of impact.
Regarding the rest, I think those are clear issues of poor quality. I work hard to be a very reasonable person so I am willing to attribute some of this to 1st model year issues (i.e. the high pressure fuel pump) and give Porsche a bit of a pass . . . but the sheer volume of distinct problems over a relatively short time can't possibly be OK (particularly on a $110k car).
Anyway, I just heard from the dealer and they don't have an ETA on any of the repairs because they are still working to diagnose the problems. They suspect it will be at least several days before they have something conclusive.
First and foremost, thank you all for your candid and objective input. That's exactly what I needed because, as you can imagine, I'm somewhat emotionally engaged in this issue and I wanted to make sure that I'm viewing it as fairly as possible.
To everyone that has asked, 70-80% of my driving is on the highway (the mass pike to be specific) and the rest is around Boston. Everyone who has said that the tires are not specifically Porsche's fault is right (I call them the way I see them!) . . . a lot of that comes down to bad luck during normal (i.e. 70-80mph on the highway) driving. The primary issue I have with the tires is how long it takes to replace an OEM tire . . . I just struggle with 3 - 4 days being reasonable in this day and age.
As for the windshield, neither I nor the dealer could figure that one out. It just developed a crack in the lower right corner and there was no clear sign of impact.
Regarding the rest, I think those are clear issues of poor quality. I work hard to be a very reasonable person so I am willing to attribute some of this to 1st model year issues (i.e. the high pressure fuel pump) and give Porsche a bit of a pass . . . but the sheer volume of distinct problems over a relatively short time can't possibly be OK (particularly on a $110k car).
Anyway, I just heard from the dealer and they don't have an ETA on any of the repairs because they are still working to diagnose the problems. They suspect it will be at least several days before they have something conclusive.
#12
10-08-2009, 04:58 PM
I'd do everything I could to get rid of the car. I'd never be psychologically satisfied after going through what you have, and unless you have previously owned a Porsche you may be justifiably sour on the brand. By this point I would have already tried to familiarize myself with my state's lemon law and considered investing 1/2 hour with a shyster. Lastly, I would not be dealer shopping - that's Porsche's problem, not yours. Hopefully you are at least getting a decent Porsche for a loaner?
Tire 'repaired'?; never heard of a Porsche dealer willing to do a repair, even for a small nail.
Tire 'repaired'?; never heard of a Porsche dealer willing to do a repair, even for a small nail.
#14
10-08-2009, 07:25 PM
I'd do everything I could to get rid of the car. I'd never be psychologically satisfied after going through what you have, and unless you have previously owned a Porsche you may be justifiably sour on the brand. By this point I would have already tried to familiarize myself with my state's lemon law and considered investing 1/2 hour with a shyster. Lastly, I would not be dealer shopping - that's Porsche's problem, not yours. Hopefully you are at least getting a decent Porsche for a loaner?
Tire 'repaired'?; never heard of a Porsche dealer willing to do a repair, even for a small nail.
Tire 'repaired'?; never heard of a Porsche dealer willing to do a repair, even for a small nail.
Here are there posts.
This owner opted to trade in his car https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...leak-saga.html
This owner did not ==
Here is his simlar plea https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...180-miles.html
months later he came back saying he got anew car --he did express that it was not easy https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ent-lemon.html
Last edited by yrralis1; 10-08-2009 at 07:27 PM.
#15
10-09-2009, 05:27 AM
I have had two tires replaced this year (because of nails in them), within a few months of each other. I assume that wide and soft summer tires make this a fairly common event for those of us who drive in a big city environment with a lot of summer construction.
On the timing to get a replacement though, in both case for me the Dealer ordered the tire at about 8:30 a.m. and the tires were in the same day. Because a technician was not available in one instance I had to leave the car overnight.
It is very unfortunate that you are having such a bad ownership experience, but one would expect that either Porsche will make everything right or replace the car.
On the timing to get a replacement though, in both case for me the Dealer ordered the tire at about 8:30 a.m. and the tires were in the same day. Because a technician was not available in one instance I had to leave the car overnight.
It is very unfortunate that you are having such a bad ownership experience, but one would expect that either Porsche will make everything right or replace the car.