Hello Everyone,

I am about to pull the trigger on a new spring option and wanted to get some input from the '6speed massif'...

Background:

As you are all no doubt aware, other than moving to a full coilover, there is only one real option presently available for a simple spring replacement, which is the H&R. I am not even offering it for sale because it is so commonly available on Tire Rack and to try and arbitrage this market is more trouble than it is worth for the most part.

However, I also believe there is room in the market for a better option. One of the common issues with some aftermarket options is that people complain of 'pogo' effect. This is a hallmark of mismatched spring & damper, whereby the spring rate is too high and the car is over-sprung and under-damped.

I am working with a manufacturer on a potential solution. What we are considering would be a true progressive rate spring. When you look at some of the currently available products, the actual diameter of the coils is exactly the same from one end of the coil to the other. Then there is a more tightly coiled end section. What is effectively achieved is 2 spring rates within the same coil. However, because the transition from looser to tighter coils is basically immediate, this means that under load, the spring is not actually operating in a truly progressive fashion, but is running at one spring rate until load and travel reaches a certain point, and then suddenly transitioning to a far higher spring rate.

This can lead to the 'pogo-ing' effect, where a sudden loading of the suspension hits the much higher spring rate and fires the wheel back towards the car, where the damper is not strong enough to cope with the force and the suspension then bounds & rebounds a couple of times as it recovers.

The Solution:

Velocity is working on a true progressive rate spring. Not only does the coil become progressively tighter in wind, rather than suddenly switch from one spring rate to another, but the actual diameter of the spring's coils are tapered in thickness. What this will achieve is a truly progressive spring rate. Meaning: soft and compliant ride over rough roads and with firm, consistent and flat handling characteristics when pressing on or under track conditions. A truly progressive spring rate will not overload the factory dampers and will allow lowering of the car without compromising ride quality in the same way that existing spring offerings do.

Your Input Required!!!

Okay guys & gals. I need your input here. Is this a product you would be interested in purchasing? How much of a drop in ride height would be ideal for you and your vehicle? What price range would you feel was reasonable given that this would be a superior product technically to the existing split twin rate springs?

Any other comments or suggestions are welcomed. I will be looking for a guinea pig to do the test-fitment, and we may consider opening this up to a group buy/pre-buy as with some of the other products we have developed.

 

I'd be interested, Stuart.

Also if you need a tester I'm available for the dance (2007 V8V). Give me a chance to try out my new mid-rise lift and clamshell spring compressors.

 

Thanks Duane, I'll be in touch before too long I think.

 

So this is a solution for daily driving and performance driving? I'm always concerned when it comes to these "universal" solutions. It usually doesn't work well for neither of them...

How about a switchable solution or better yet remote (dual) adjustable solution (similar to KW DDC)? I'm tracking my car and would like to optimize my setup for the track when it comes to it. It would be nice if I can do it without removing wheels...

 

FWIW, would have been interested when I still had my V8V. I would have liked a drop of 1 inch, no more.

The set of H&R's I got from RSC back in the day lowered both ends of the car too much for my taste, but the rear of the car was excessively dropped, such that fouling/wear issues occurred when I ran wider HRE wheels. But I have seen posts with pics online showing much less drop in the rear, also with H&R's. I've never seen a satisfactory explanation for this discrepancy. I assume there are two different specs for the H&R's as opposed to intrinsic differences in the V8V's involved.

Just mentioning the above to keep in mind if you go ahead with the development.

Not sure why Aston insist on excessive wheel-fender gap on their products. My Jaguar DD has less gap and more ride height than my V12V. Indeed, I would rate the stance of the V12V as perfect if it were not for the fender gap. Such a shame, as it slightly mars of one of the best looking cars on the planet. Any plans on springs for the V12 with a drop of 3/4 inch?

 

If I am paraphrasing correctly...

I agree with your point that a compromise rarely works as well for two roles as a setup dedicated to one role. So it's odd that you question the spring proposal in this thread, and then suggest a different setup which is still a compromise.

 

I don't plan to modify my car. I don't think it rides too high, nor do I think the fender gap is too big. I use my car on the road, and the roads in the NE US roads basically resemble the moon's surface. Personally, most of the lowered cars I see look too low -- looks over ability. That said...

If I were to consider something like this, it would have to be only a slight drop -- a half inch or so. Any lower and, IMO, you create more problems than you solve.

 

Thanks for the feedback guys, please keep it coming!

 

I was questioning the whole setup, not just the springs. I think the setup would work better for the dual role is there was some adjustability in the shocks as well, not just the progressive springs.

 

To the best of my knowledge there is only 1 spec of H&R Spring out there in the marketplace, period. I have done some research into the matter, and if H&R makes more than one spec of spring it is news to me. I have seen the drop reported as little as .75" and as much as 1.25", but it does seem to be on the high side of that range. Any discrepancy really has to be down to camera angles, or methodology for measurement. I think most reporting is going to be an inexact science at best.

I agree with you on 3/4". My personal taste is for a small enough drop to make the car look more purposeful and sporting, but without actually calling attention to the fact that it is lowered. I had a BMW 330i with the ZHP package, lowered 1/2" from the factory and it was just about perfect. It looked more muscular and sporting, but you wouldn't stand there and immediately pick out that it was lower, it just looked better overall.

I would love to do a spring for the V12V.

 

I do offer a coilover suspension setup. It is fully ride height adjustable, though not at the push of a button, it can be done pretty quickly once the corners are unweighted. The bump/rebound adjustment can be done with the car on the ground in just a few seconds.

The push-button magnetorheological suspensions are a different kettle of fish. Very expensive. Best of both worlds, yes, but very expensive to boot, especially as a retrofit.

What I am aiming to achieve with the proposed lowering spring is not a 'perfect' solution to conquer all conditions. I know a lot of people want a little bit of a softer initial travel for 'surface of the moon' local roads, and a lot would also like a small drop in ride height. I think this can be done better than the current offerings, just interested to know if people think this would be worth producing. So far seems like some yes, some no?

Would like to keep the price point reasonable, perhaps around the $650-700 mark. So a similar price but a (hopefully) much better product

 

Stuart - first I want to thank you for 100 Cell Cats - They are the perfect sound for me.. I will get a sound clip on here soon ...

Regarding the springs; I installed the H&R's and happy with the drop and ride.. A bit firm and low - but I knew that going in.... paid right around $500 - and felt that was a fair price .... Would have paid more for what you are suggesting ....

Good luck ...

 

I know the eye can be deceiving but I have seen enough pics to say there is a substantial difference in rear ride height between different V8Vs that are reportedly all lowered with H&R springs, even accounting for camera angles. I am not talking about absolute measurements of drop (which as you say can differ based on methodology), rather a VISIBLE difference in ride height. The below thread (which we both posted in) supports this confusing observation. Perhaps there are indeed differences between the cars and not the springs.

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...g-springs.html

Look at the comical rear drop on my old V8V in that thread (with OEM wheels!)

 

If there's an actual difference in the amount of drop, it must be down to vehicle variances. I have been in contact with H&R fairly recently and they confirmed that there is only 1 spec of spring they produce for the V8 Vantage.

 

15mm min -> 20mm max.