Installed Cobb Stage II and BY-Design Intercoolers
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Yeah I figured but had remembered reading he mentioned something of switching exhausts so I went back and checked.
Good luck with the grandson situation. Family first
I didn't get a trap speed until after 1pm. By that time it was 95 degrees with a 20mph headwind. Best was 167.X.
Agreed on the DVs. My DVs are the same ones that came with the car new. So are my plugs. Car has 36,000 miles and I'm running 30psi midrange. If the original DVs and plugs are still good in my car, they are likely fine in everyone else's.
Not to mention the less-then-optimal conditions under which the dyno testing was performed (i.e. lack of rpm signal or data-log during the GIAC run) which technically would make it impossible to plot a TQ curve, yet you have a pretty clearly plotted TQ shown. The whole thing is a bit confusing, to be honest.
How is a customer with a competitors product expected to log their car if that product does not supply them with a means to do so?
The speed ratio data gathered from the Accessport's datalogs is equal under any tune or any condition in 4th gear as long as the four things listed above are not changed. Aside from that the speed ratio used for the torque calculations were the same for Cobb and the Competitors dyno runs so the percentage change in gains would remain identical regardless.
If everyone forgot about the torque and looked at the plots with just horsepower you can still clearly see the difference in linearity, consistency, and gains between the two, especially in the mid range.
The premise of this post by Nigel, I believe, was to compare two tunes under the same conditions. He chose to do this at a 3rd party facility as to not affiliate any interested party and come to his own conclusions on which tune fit him best. We encourage all to do the same!
DSports dynojet 424linx is what they use to do before and after tests for all of their unbiased magazine publications so consistency on this dyno is vital for them. I honestly don't know of a better dyno he could have picked to perform this test in this manner.
Thanks everyone!
-Jon
Last edited by COBB Tuning; Oct 2, 2015 at 10:28 AM. Reason: grammar
This is incorrect. All that is needed to plot torque is speed ratio, horsepower, and vehicle speed. All of which I explained above. That speed ratio is a constant. Only changed by wheel radius, tire sidewall height, gearing, or slipping clutches. None of which occurred or were changed in the session. This speed ratio was easily acquired using the data from the Cobb datalog. I hope it is not presumed that different tunes result in a different speed ratio.
The premise of this post by Nigel, I believe, was to compare two tunes under the same conditions. He chose to do this at a 3rd party facility as to not affiliate any interested party and come to his own conclusions on which tune fit him best. We encourage all to do the same!
Just because GIAC does not supply the means to data log, that doesn't mean it can't be done. You're implying that GIAC software is somehow "hidden" or unreadable...when the reality is all you need is a Durametric, PIWIS, or GIAC logger to conduct the same type of logging that the AP offers. The GIAC logger even samples at a significantly higher rate.
Verbatim: "How is a customer with a competitors product expected to log their car if that product does not supply them with a means to do so?"
These other logging options are not easily accessible. If they are located they are an additional expense on top of the already purchased calibration. PIWIS may work ok on the dyno, but is extremely hard and extremely expensive for the average consumer to get. Not to mention very cumbersome to use while on track. The Durametric is a great tool for other features but I wouldn't advise using the data from it to form a refined calibration. I have yet to see our competitions logging capabilities in the hands of a consumer, not to say it isn't, but there is little ever spoken about their logging ability by their customers.
Logging in my opinion is just as crucial as tuning. It not only provides data needed for engine calibration, but it is a wonderful tool in diagnosing mechanical issues if you know what to look for. As is the built in trouble code reader on the Accessport.
The Cobb Accessport includes the ability to datalog with a blistering fast log rate. The log I posted before had 44 parameters selected and sampled at 49hz. That means it records 44 unique channels of data from different outputs and sensors 49 times per second. That is 2,156 unique data points gathered per second.
Any individual who modifies their car should have the ability to easily and honestly monitor their car's health and status.
-Jon Hebbeln
-Porsche R&D Calibrator
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By now I have seen thread after thread claiming that GIAC basically makes crap power and 100 lbs ft less torque than Cobb. We will see who makes more power at comparative events.
1. Our October 7th Atco rental day; and
2. Slipstream's Oct 17th roll races at Pocono.
3. The upcoming ShiftSector event in California.
I am in numbers 1 and 2with RedGutz. Hope to see as many Cobb tuned cars as possible.
If the Cobb torque claims are to be believed a stage 2 Cobb tuned car with stock ICs should be as fast or faster than my GIAC Stage 2 plus tune car with Champion ICs. Let's see if some of these amazing Dyno runs are proven in the real world.
Time to GoPro up and record for the Porsche world to see.
1. Our October 7th Atco rental day; and
2. Slipstream's Oct 17th roll races at Pocono.
3. The upcoming ShiftSector event in California.
I am in numbers 1 and 2with RedGutz. Hope to see as many Cobb tuned cars as possible.
If the Cobb torque claims are to be believed a stage 2 Cobb tuned car with stock ICs should be as fast or faster than my GIAC Stage 2 plus tune car with Champion ICs. Let's see if some of these amazing Dyno runs are proven in the real world.
Time to GoPro up and record for the Porsche world to see.
If someone have vbox let us know the 60-130 times, Wonder where am I in comparition of GIAC stg two
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Webcar,
I raced OP and got him by a car length at this same event, I raced this black PP Perfornance 991 and he got me by a little over a car length I believe he was running meth but can't confirm. I also raced longboarder and he got me by about 3 cars, I also had a passenger on all my runs ( black 991 had passenger as well )I'm hopping to close that gap by a lot at shift sector, with my new tune and IC'
I raced OP and got him by a car length at this same event, I raced this black PP Perfornance 991 and he got me by a little over a car length I believe he was running meth but can't confirm. I also raced longboarder and he got me by about 3 cars, I also had a passenger on all my runs ( black 991 had passenger as well )I'm hopping to close that gap by a lot at shift sector, with my new tune and IC'
Great, what was your and black PP Car MPH in the 1/2 mile?
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Posts: 1,575
Rep Power: 195
I didn't get a trap speed until after 1pm. By that time it was 95 degrees with a 20mph headwind. Best was 167.X.
Agreed on the DVs. My DVs are the same ones that came with the car new. So are my plugs. Car has 36,000 miles and I'm running 30psi midrange. If the original DVs and plugs are still good in my car, they are likely fine in everyone else's.
Agreed on the DVs. My DVs are the same ones that came with the car new. So are my plugs. Car has 36,000 miles and I'm running 30psi midrange. If the original DVs and plugs are still good in my car, they are likely fine in everyone else's.
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Apologies if it came across that way but in no way did I insinuate that the ability was hidden or unreadable, all I stated is that the customer was not given the means to do it. Simply implying the ability to datalog was not included or easily accessible on that particular product.
Verbatim: "How is a customer with a competitors product expected to log their car if that product does not supply them with a means to do so?"
These other logging options are not easily accessible. If they are located they are an additional expense on top of the already purchased calibration. PIWIS may work ok on the dyno, but is extremely hard and extremely expensive for the average consumer to get. Not to mention very cumbersome to use while on track. The Durametric is a great tool for other features but I wouldn't advise using the data from it to form a refined calibration. I have yet to see our competitions logging capabilities in the hands of a consumer, not to say it isn't, but there is little ever spoken about their logging ability by their customers.
Logging in my opinion is just as crucial as tuning. It not only provides data needed for engine calibration, but it is a wonderful tool in diagnosing mechanical issues if you know what to look for. As is the built in trouble code reader on the Accessport.
The Cobb Accessport includes the ability to datalog with a blistering fast log rate. The log I posted before had 44 parameters selected and sampled at 49hz. That means it records 44 unique channels of data from different outputs and sensors 49 times per second. That is 2,156 unique data points gathered per second.
Any individual who modifies their car should have the ability to easily and honestly monitor their car's health and status.
-Jon Hebbeln
-Porsche R&D Calibrator
Verbatim: "How is a customer with a competitors product expected to log their car if that product does not supply them with a means to do so?"
These other logging options are not easily accessible. If they are located they are an additional expense on top of the already purchased calibration. PIWIS may work ok on the dyno, but is extremely hard and extremely expensive for the average consumer to get. Not to mention very cumbersome to use while on track. The Durametric is a great tool for other features but I wouldn't advise using the data from it to form a refined calibration. I have yet to see our competitions logging capabilities in the hands of a consumer, not to say it isn't, but there is little ever spoken about their logging ability by their customers.
Logging in my opinion is just as crucial as tuning. It not only provides data needed for engine calibration, but it is a wonderful tool in diagnosing mechanical issues if you know what to look for. As is the built in trouble code reader on the Accessport.
The Cobb Accessport includes the ability to datalog with a blistering fast log rate. The log I posted before had 44 parameters selected and sampled at 49hz. That means it records 44 unique channels of data from different outputs and sensors 49 times per second. That is 2,156 unique data points gathered per second.
Any individual who modifies their car should have the ability to easily and honestly monitor their car's health and status.
-Jon Hebbeln
-Porsche R&D Calibrator
Like Sambo will say ... "and now I just drop the mic" lol
Just kidding
The Cobb Accessport includes the ability to datalog with a blistering fast log rate. The log I posted before had 44 parameters selected and sampled at 49hz. That means it records 44 unique channels of data from different outputs and sensors 49 times per second. That is 2,156 unique data points gathered per second.
Any individual who modifies their car should have the ability to easily and honestly monitor their car's health and status.
-Jon Hebbeln
-Porsche R&D Calibrator
Any individual who modifies their car should have the ability to easily and honestly monitor their car's health and status.
-Jon Hebbeln
-Porsche R&D Calibrator
But back on topic for a sec. Do you think it's possible that the GIAC and Cobb software could react differently to the "hardware problem" that the OP mentioned?
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Well it's a TT not a TTS, I assume that is the case from the OP's handle and at first I thought the hp numbers were low in the first plot but I just figured that is because it's a TT. IMO this shows the TT can be tuned up to a stock TTS but it won't tune to the levels a TTS will.
By now I have seen thread after thread claiming that GIAC basically makes crap power and 100 lbs ft less torque than Cobb. We will see who makes more power at comparative events.
I am in numbers 1 and 2with RedGutz. Hope to see as many Cobb tuned cars as possible.
If the Cobb torque claims are to be believed a stage 2 Cobb tuned car with stock ICs should be as fast or faster than my GIAC Stage 2 plus tune car with Champion ICs. Let's see if some of these amazing Dyno runs are proven in the real world.
Time to GoPro up and record for the Porsche world to see.
I am in numbers 1 and 2with RedGutz. Hope to see as many Cobb tuned cars as possible.
If the Cobb torque claims are to be believed a stage 2 Cobb tuned car with stock ICs should be as fast or faster than my GIAC Stage 2 plus tune car with Champion ICs. Let's see if some of these amazing Dyno runs are proven in the real world.
Time to GoPro up and record for the Porsche world to see.
I raced OP and got him by a car length at this same event, I raced this black PP Perfornance 991 and he got me by a little over a car length I believe he was running meth but can't confirm. I also raced longboarder and he got me by about 3 cars, I also had a passenger on all my runs ( black 991 had passenger as well )I'm hopping to close that gap by a lot at shift sector, with my new tune and IC'
Remember.... Wow how time flies!
Started from the bottom.....
Remember....
Remember.....
Last edited by White991TT; Mar 2, 2016 at 12:04 AM.
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Wow, I just read this entire thread post by post and it is very obvious to me who are the vendor cronies, wannabees and who are the real racers.
When it comes to racing, there is never 100% full disclosure transparency, but man, some folks in here sure like to bash one party over the head to simply push the best interest for their preferred vendor.
I applaud you Mr. White991TT for simply sticking to it and letting your driving, car and times do the talking. Remember, there will always be doubters out there. Typically because it is not them doing it.
Times like these is the reason why I race for money - I like shutting ****'s down and taking their money. Granted, my DD 997.2 TTS was decently quick (10.26's); will soon start to work on my 2016 TTS. In the meantime, my 9.08@153 C6Z06 will fill the gap. I can drive that car to and from the track and I love it when cocky P-car owners challenge me (track or street)...the looks on their faces after the beat down is priceless; even more so after I share pics of cars or key/fobs of my 997.2/991 both TTS letting them know I am not one brand man. I like ALL brands!!!
Point is, everyone can go fast with careful planning and execution - NOT ONE tuner has all the answers or the only answer...please give folks their props and move on vs. bashing any time of accomplishments...street/track/or dyno. All of these vendor vs. vendor crap is silly - and it comes mainly from the cronies non driving *****.
There, I spoke my peace. Flame suit is on.
Thanks,
E-Gear
When it comes to racing, there is never 100% full disclosure transparency, but man, some folks in here sure like to bash one party over the head to simply push the best interest for their preferred vendor.
I applaud you Mr. White991TT for simply sticking to it and letting your driving, car and times do the talking. Remember, there will always be doubters out there. Typically because it is not them doing it.
Times like these is the reason why I race for money - I like shutting ****'s down and taking their money. Granted, my DD 997.2 TTS was decently quick (10.26's); will soon start to work on my 2016 TTS. In the meantime, my 9.08@153 C6Z06 will fill the gap. I can drive that car to and from the track and I love it when cocky P-car owners challenge me (track or street)...the looks on their faces after the beat down is priceless; even more so after I share pics of cars or key/fobs of my 997.2/991 both TTS letting them know I am not one brand man. I like ALL brands!!!
Point is, everyone can go fast with careful planning and execution - NOT ONE tuner has all the answers or the only answer...please give folks their props and move on vs. bashing any time of accomplishments...street/track/or dyno. All of these vendor vs. vendor crap is silly - and it comes mainly from the cronies non driving *****.
There, I spoke my peace. Flame suit is on.
Thanks,
E-Gear
