february C&D
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february C&D
just got the new issue (sorry no link for it) and compares 991s vs 2013 gtr, and z06. they liked the porsche best but sticker was over $130k! performance #'s were fantastic though. cant imagine how fast (or $$) the gt/turbo versions will be. the gtr was best value and z06 best track car.
also had a separate test of lap times at vir. pana tts did a 3.00! way faster than a cay r 3.04. zr1 did 2.51 as fastest in test. viper acr did a 2.49 in 2008.
anyone here have lap times in their cars at vir for comparison?
also had a separate test of lap times at vir. pana tts did a 3.00! way faster than a cay r 3.04. zr1 did 2.51 as fastest in test. viper acr did a 2.49 in 2008.
anyone here have lap times in their cars at vir for comparison?
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An even longer jump from the 4.6 that was reported in an earlier review (InsideLine?) on the manual transmission.
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PDK and Launch Control accounts for quite a bit. The .2 gt3 has been clocked at less than 8.2 (8.2 is Porsche's claim, which we all know is underestimated. I've seen an 8.0 and seem to recall a 7.9) to 100 ~ at least .4 faster than the 991S ~ and 11.8/11.9 1/4 @ 119.5 or so, which clearly shows its HP advantage. The difference is more meaningful considering the gt3 has a stick and the 991 the aforementioned PDK/SC Plus w/LC. The .2 GT3 also had a MSRP (when optioned correctly) of less than $119k. (Mine has all the performance options needed and Full Leather, Heated Seats, Auto-Dimming Mirrors, DEMs, SPP, BT, iPod, a few other goodies and was <$121.5k.) That's $13k less than the 991S in this test. Maybe the PCCBs add $8900 of that sticker, but would still cost more even if removing that option.
The 991S is a marvelous car, but it is no GT3.
I am very curious how the 7 speed manual competes against the .2 gt3. Not considering car and driver's typical exaggerated performance numbers. Unfortunately the US rags are just that, imho, of course.
Where does the 15 lbs lighter come from? Last I saw the two were 3075 (Porsche claimed) dry. With that said, I wonder if C&D weighed the test car. If so, it has PCCBs, which would shave another 45 lbs or so and slightly improve acceleration, lap and braking times. 997.2 gt3 vs. 991S w/7spd. stick and cast iron rotors would easily favor the gt3 as would any repeated lap times. Although a great car the 991S is not set up for repeated track lap use; the brakes for one are still too small.
On a side note, PDK is great just not for me.
As the OP stated, if this car is this good, imagine how good the GT cars will be.
Last edited by 911dev; Dec 31, 2011 at 04:18 PM.
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IF you believe C&D 0-60 numbers, then that's fine. But they are constantly lower than official numbers or those coming from European tests.
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Not so much, if you consider:
PDK and Launch Control accounts for quite a bit. The .2 gt3 has been clocked at less than 8.2 (8.2 is Porsche's claim, which we all know is underestimated. I've seen an 8.0 and seem to recall a 7.9) to 100 ~ at least .4 faster than the 991S ~ and 11.8/11.9 1/4 @ 119.5 or so, which clearly shows its HP advantage. The difference is more meaningful considering the gt3 has a stick and the 991 the aforementioned PDK/SC Plus w/LC. The .2 GT3 also had a MSRP (when optioned correctly) of less than $119k. (Mine has all the performance options needed and Full Leather, Heated Seats, Auto-Dimming Mirrors, DEMs, SPP, BT, iPod, a few other goodies and was <$121.5k.) That's $13k less than the 991S in this test. Maybe the PCCBs add $8900 of that sticker, but would still cost more even if removing that option.
The 991S is a marvelous car, but it is no GT3.
I am very curious how the 7 speed manual competes against the .2 gt3. Not considering car and driver's typical exaggerated performance numbers. Unfortunately the US rags are just that, imho, of course.
Where does the 15 lbs lighter come from? Last I saw the two were 3075 (Porsche claimed) dry. With that said, I wonder if C&D weighed the test car. If so, it has PCCBs, which would shave another 45 lbs or so and slightly improve acceleration, lap and braking times. 997.2 gt3 vs. 991S w/7spd. stick and cast iron rotors would easily favor the gt3 as would any repeated lap times. Although a great car the 991S is not set up for repeated track lap use; the brakes for one are still too small.
On a side note, PDK is great just not for me.
As the OP stated, if this car is this good, imagine how good the GT cars will be.
PDK and Launch Control accounts for quite a bit. The .2 gt3 has been clocked at less than 8.2 (8.2 is Porsche's claim, which we all know is underestimated. I've seen an 8.0 and seem to recall a 7.9) to 100 ~ at least .4 faster than the 991S ~ and 11.8/11.9 1/4 @ 119.5 or so, which clearly shows its HP advantage. The difference is more meaningful considering the gt3 has a stick and the 991 the aforementioned PDK/SC Plus w/LC. The .2 GT3 also had a MSRP (when optioned correctly) of less than $119k. (Mine has all the performance options needed and Full Leather, Heated Seats, Auto-Dimming Mirrors, DEMs, SPP, BT, iPod, a few other goodies and was <$121.5k.) That's $13k less than the 991S in this test. Maybe the PCCBs add $8900 of that sticker, but would still cost more even if removing that option.
The 991S is a marvelous car, but it is no GT3.
I am very curious how the 7 speed manual competes against the .2 gt3. Not considering car and driver's typical exaggerated performance numbers. Unfortunately the US rags are just that, imho, of course.
Where does the 15 lbs lighter come from? Last I saw the two were 3075 (Porsche claimed) dry. With that said, I wonder if C&D weighed the test car. If so, it has PCCBs, which would shave another 45 lbs or so and slightly improve acceleration, lap and braking times. 997.2 gt3 vs. 991S w/7spd. stick and cast iron rotors would easily favor the gt3 as would any repeated lap times. Although a great car the 991S is not set up for repeated track lap use; the brakes for one are still too small.
On a side note, PDK is great just not for me.
As the OP stated, if this car is this good, imagine how good the GT cars will be.
Doesnt matter what the GT3 has been "clocked" at....I have owned a GT3 and believe its the greatest 911 ever.....but I am comparing 2 tests from the same mag...weight, acceleration, etc. And the 991S is clearly equal to a 3.8 GT3 tested by the same mag. Search the results for weight and accel #'s. Stop bench racing and compare the results from same magazine's actual testing results.
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Doesnt matter what the GT3 has been "clocked" at....I have owned a GT3 and believe its the greatest 911 ever.....but I am comparing 2 tests from the same mag...weight, acceleration, etc. And the 991S is clearly equal to a 3.8 GT3 tested by the same mag. Search the results for weight and accel #'s. Stop bench racing and compare the results from same magazine's actual testing results.
Bill
Bill
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Last edited by 911dev; Jan 1, 2012 at 07:18 AM.
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No doubt PDK and LC are what makes the 991S equal to a 997.2 GT3 in these acceleration tests. But the same magazine weighed both cars and the 991S was lighter. And why is the 3.6 sec 0-60 "amusing" ?? A 997 Turbo S with PDK +LC did ~2.6 sec...+130 hp but also heavier. If C&D got 3.8 sec on the 435hp 997.2 GT3, why is 3.6 sec for a LIGHTER 991S with 400 hp, more torque and the aforementioned PDK +LC not believable ?
Again, I am a GT3 owner, and like you do NOT believe a base Carrera S is equal in driving pleasure and emotion to a GT3. But to not believe a highly instrumented test from the same mag is ridiculous. They weighed both cars and tested both cars, the 991S was lighter and with PDK +LC was the equal on acceleration to the .2 GT3.
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No doubt PDK and LC are what makes the 991S equal to a 997.2 GT3 in these acceleration tests. But the same magazine weighed both cars and the 991S was lighter. And why is the 3.6 sec 0-60 "amusing" ?? A 997 Turbo S with PDK +LC did ~2.6 sec...+130 hp but also heavier. If C&D got 3.8 sec on the 435hp 997.2 GT3, why is 3.6 sec for a LIGHTER 991S with 400 hp, more torque and the aforementioned PDK +LC not believable ?
Again, I am a GT3 owner, and like you do NOT believe a base Carrera S is equal in driving pleasure and emotion to a GT3. But to not believe a highly instrumented test from the same mag is ridiculous. They weighed both cars and tested both cars, the 991S was lighter and with PDK +LC was the equal on acceleration to the .2 GT3.
Bill
Again, I am a GT3 owner, and like you do NOT believe a base Carrera S is equal in driving pleasure and emotion to a GT3. But to not believe a highly instrumented test from the same mag is ridiculous. They weighed both cars and tested both cars, the 991S was lighter and with PDK +LC was the equal on acceleration to the .2 GT3.
Bill
With that said, I guess at some level we are going to have to agree to disagree. I need more data from C&D in order for me to validate their weights. And, again, their test car had PCCBs which as we all know are 45 lbs lighter and such in one of the most important areas which likely has twice the static weight loss effect as that pertains to any speed contest.
Porsche claims 3075 for the .2 gt3 and 3175 for the 997.2 911S. Porsche claims they have taken 88 lbs from the 991 Carrera S which brings it to 3087 according to my math. Add back in the roughly 65 lbs for PDK then back out the 45 lbs. or so for PCCBs (which their test car has) and the math doesn't work. Maybe if I had faith that they had identical fuel and washer fluid levels with very similar options and I would be a believer. However, history tells me otherwise about these rag tests.
Maybe the 3.6 in credible. That's excellent if it is. Time will time as well as more credible (imo) mag tests come to be; understandably, curious why the Euro mags have quite different results. Even if I give in to the 3.6, my point still stands that a PCCB, PDK, SC w/LC car beating a manual non-PCCB gt3 to 60 is quite slanted. I dare say that simply deleting the PCCBs and not using LC would be no faster than the gt3. Remove PDK and it will be slower, which will become more-so as the speed builds.
I find it frustrating when people tout the 991S's speed being equal to or better than the .2 GT3 when the tests are far from equal; disclaimer applies. I would love to see equally optioned cars, with manuals run.
Last edited by 911dev; Jan 1, 2012 at 03:43 PM.