I'm particularly concerned of several reviews saying that this is a better car,not a better 911. Perhaps enough fans will complaint and on the MY 14 the electric steering is gone. Personally, I would not count on that given VW interference.
Is the M5 the last on the pack?
Enjoy the read:


German Icons 2012 Porsche 911 Carrera S

 

Wow!

 

"this ***** bites back" - LOL that was funny.

...The more I think about it - it's time for a car like this. If you want an iconic "neunelfer" then go buy one, from the 70's, 80's, 90's or a 997 being the closest modern day 911 (not to discredit the 996 but it's just kinda different).

1975. Legend has it that drivers couldn’t handle the Turbo. The famous turbo lag for a split second after which the car would suddenly (and unexpectedly) accelerate into Nirvana, causing accidents by inexperienced drivers. And I remember how my parents and their friends told me as a kid that driving a 911 isn’t easy. You have to play with the gas when coming around corners or the rear would break out. It’s engraved in my brain, like education. Lots of myth(os), certainly some truth to that when driving at the limit.

But let’s face it, it wouldn’t be appropriate anymore. And by that benchmark, the 997 ain’t no 911 either.

So while I may (or may not until I have actually driven one) agree with the author, I’d say that if it’s that much a better car rather than a “better 911 – whatever that even means” – then it’s the right thing to do. In fact, it’ll redefine and reinterpret what 911 stands for. That’s what new generations do.

I’ve been scouting tons of threads in my fellow German auto forums where you can read about initial real life experiences and so far I only heard the greatest of feedback – which is the 991 being the best car they’ve ever driven.

Given its price tag, by the time I can afford to buy a 991 I hopefully will be able to just keep my 997 anyway. I want to keep it for what it is – a different 911.

Prost to that.

NB

 

One interesting thing about this article is the reference that one have if you drive the 991 as your first 911 versus a comparison against prior 911s. Great car, better in many ways, but does it have what most of us look in a 911?

Some of the reviews from owners can be clouded by the amount of money they paid for the car. In the other hand, haters like Clarkson will find problems if the car changed or not (his reviews of the 997 vs 996, 997TT and 997.2TT are typical example).

I guess one needs to drive it to see that the degree of taming is acceptable. I find the future of Porsche grim in the hands of VW. Platform and components sharing save money (not necessarily for us) and can potentially dilute the brand.

I will wait until Feb to try one and then wait a little more until May-ish to try a M5. Perhaps some 997.2 TT (MY10-12) might show up in the market, but their numbers were so small as new that I find unlikely to see bargains.

 

People coming off a 993 would most likely say the same thing about any Pcar thereafter. So I agree while I disagree because, as I stated above, I think defining a 911 is a moving target.

When I grew up, Porsche was way different than what is now. It was raw, loud, imperfect, no luxury, a traditon of weird colors and racing stripes coupled with old fashioned design, to name a few (subject to individual perception). in short, the perfect anti-establishment car. In fact, Porsche had some real "image problems" in Germany in the 80's and 90's.

And now people joke that the typical 911 demographic is a mid-life crisis plagued mid-60s affluent male (nothing wrong with that and no offense here - mostly a function of $100K+ price tag and increasingly so) fulfilling a life-long dream.

And yes you still can get those loud and colorful Pcars. And they will always stand out on the parking lot next to the British racing green AM, which is pure elegance and the opposite of any Pcar (besides costing double).

So I’m really having issues defining what a 911 is. The new Carrera S performed GT3-like in the Nurburgring Nordschleife supertest. They must have done something right there in Zuffenhausen.

One thing I do want to point out is that in the US, Porsche does indeed have a better and more traditional image than in Germany, where black Cayennes became a symbol of establishment and 911s in the same category. Sooo not what they used to be. And Porsche already declared the US as the key market for the 991.

And I am too worried about the marriage with Volkswagen (which in a non-formal way has been going on for a long time already). Speaking of the pre-water cooled era, pre-VW could become an era of its own. The fact they’ll bring a mini-cayenne this year is already very “concerning”. The Boxster is a mini-11 but less so than it used to be, thankfully. Just a question of time till there is going to be a mini-panamera, too. Remember, the cayenne is up to 80% touareg/Q7. But Porsche ties back to VW back to its heritage so it’s not the VW marriage that concerns me, it’s what they are going to do to the brand as they’re thriving to become the world’s largest car manufacturer.

But when Mercedes released the first 190E, people were already prediciting the downfall of the entire brand. Didn't happen. And the Boxster/Cayman really did become a class of its own. I have driven one and I loved it. And I couldn't afford a 911.

Back to my original point, what is a 911. Don’t know. But it’ll be something very different in 10 years than what it was 10 years ago. Just get the one you can identify yourself with and it’ll be your definition of a 911.

 

We can only guess and wait for the actual cars to appear but I suggest any new / different 911 simply expands the range. As a metaphor: Picasso had a blue period and a cubist period and yet 'Guernica' fits into neither. Evolution is the characteristic that attracts us to the great engineering. Someone coming into the fold, no matter when and which model, is still drawn by an appreciation of history and the teamwork necessary to produce something so special.

I have a friend who just picked up a super '02 996tt. His grin tells it all.

 

First mediocre review I've read- the rest I've read/watched were glowing - and I don't care about many of Automobilemags gripes, personally.

And isn't this the 3rd time this rag has reviewed the 2012 991? The other articles were extremely positive. First drive, First ride, then this article...

ZZZzzzz

More excited about this car than ever!

 

Based on everything I've read about 991, it's a superb car, and overall an improvement on 997, while still staying faithful enough to the 911 legacy.

The one thing that surprised me most is that they essentially didn't improve the rear legroom, despite 4" more wheelbase. Even an inch more legroom would have helped in accommodating kids backs there, which would have opened the car up to more buyers.

Whether I personally will like it more than the 997 remains to be seen. Fortunately, I have a 997, so I can hold on to that as long as I want if I prefer it over the 991.

 

The Automobile article reinforced some of the other reviewers comments about the manual transmission - offset pedals; heavy clutch. Others have reported less precise shift action, that the sloping console puts the manual in a less intuitive position and that 7th gear in the MT is awkward to reach.

And what's with the heavy clutch on the 991? If the 991 clutch is anything like the current GT3 clutch, it's not gonna be fun in stop and go traffic.

I was going to take early delivery of a MT 991, but now I'm going to wait to drive one (if there's one to test drive). One way to kill off the manual is to make it less fun - the PDk will seem more attractive - or maybe after 40 years of driving Porsches, I'll have to take a serious look at the R8V10 with MT.

 

You better hurry because in the second generation R8 coming out in 2014 there will be no MT offered!!

 

Wondering if the rear seats stayed the same or got redesigned? Also, is the new 991 considered wide body or not? What are the new rear hip dimmensions?

PS: found the answers, I guess the C4S will be the widebody just like in past editions

 

thanks for posting this....i can see merit in this review from several areas.

Great car, easy to driver fast. Different feel from a 997.

As always, its up to what a driver wants in a ride.

 

I've read 2 reviews that distinctly said Porsche retained the "go-kart feel" with the 991.

I've also hear verbal reports from people I trust that it doesn't feel as big as some reports are suggesting. Two inches in added length and a 50mm wider front axle track does not a big car make. It is shorter in height.

The article bothers me (granted I have yet to drive the car) because they say things like:

"Clearly, the new 911's handling limits are considerably higher than before, and it demonstrates body control, balance, and stability that all rank among the best we've ever experienced from any car."

..but it doesn't feel like a 911.

"The front buckets feel wider and more comfortable than the previous 911's seats"

..but it doesn't feel like a 911.

"it doesn't get squirrely at high speeds, and it won't get angry if you make a mistake."

...but it doesn't feel like a 911.

It accelerates faster, corners faster and flatter, shifts faster, stops quicker, and is more comfortable while still being a compact rear-engine 911. Hey, just because it isn't inclined to KILL you doesn't mean it isn't a 911. Seems like the author wanted a thesis statement and ran with it. This is going to be the best 911 to-date. Seriously considering leasing mine and upping to a 991 GT3 when the time comes.

 

Video from KBB also nice. The white model at a distance really resembles an Aston...

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2011/12...viewed-by.html

 

In regards to the clutch this has me concerned as well but I can't imagine the clutch actually being 'heavy'.

Has any other article mentioned a heavy clutch ?

Keep in mind this is an early production car and it has been test driven by Magazine writers who pretty much drive the heck out of them.

It seems Porsche has delayed the Manual's ... maybe this is one of the reasons why. I just can't imagine Porsche making the clutch heavier.