991 Pricing Ridiculous...
#46
01-22-2012, 04:31 PM
I just ordered my 991 and agree that it seems a lot more expensive. I've bought and sold enough Porsches to know that you hardly get anything back on the expensive options. My new 991 will cost more than my last 997 turbo and I'm keeping options down (except full leather, pccb's, premium deluxe mega plus package, etc).
P.S. When we ordered the Cayenne S we were offered on average 8-13k discounts on all the Mercs, BMWs, and Audi's we test drove. Not only did we pay more for the custom Cayenne we also had to wait and the compliments I get on an SUV are ridiculous!
#48
01-22-2012, 08:59 PM
We drive Porsches because we like them, there are pro's and con 's for sure but in general, Porsche's 911 series is one of the few supercars that can be used as a daily driver, can be bought at a reasonable price for the base model ( if you can ever find it) and a whopping additional 50% for an all song and dancing version. Porsche , now under the leadership of VW, Porsche will have to contribute to the corporate balance sheet and will be forced to re-use some of the corporate assets. So now we are seeing 4 doors, SUV's, some hybrids and electrics soon I bet. This all helps to spread the costs across on the Volkwagen / Audi / Porsche and others in Europe and Asia marques and platforms. The result can be a killer for the brand. What is the difference between Oldsmobile, Chevrolet or Ford and Mercury?? It's sheet metal and a selection of options and functionality for the corporate parts bin and oodles of marketing. It is already happening. Look at the corporate image on all the new Porsches, the interiors are starting to look alike, the SUV's are already identical looking to the VW Touareg line. More to come I am sure. That is the danger. Powerful engines?? You can get the same and more with more reliability from Ford and Chevrolet already. You get a better design for Aston Martin and a bunch of other brands... The Koreans are catching up quickly, they are bold and have no fear to invest. It's all about long term commitment with them unlike the Quarterly driven business Porsche is locked into. It's going to be an interesting race. Should I decide to get a new toy... The choices are endless. Porsche is just one of them.
#49
01-22-2012, 09:32 PM
Doom and gloom?!? Guys, Ford and Chevy have always made MUCH more powerful engines. But the Porsche lead in quality and performance is greater now than it's ever been. Send the best of Detroit around the 'ring with a GT car. Or a 991 for that matter.
Ford and Chevy more reliable? Nope - Porsche won as the most reliable and dependable car last year, with the 911 model leading the way. Both in the US by JD Powers and in Europe by their ratings agency.
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2010/...incoln-second/
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/12/12/p...-reliable-car/
You guys can dislike the fact that Porsche makes other models of automobile now and the idea of a VW business attachment, but don't blur the facts to pursued yourselves. There isn't a car maker out there with one model. Porsche would die on the vine making just a 911. It' a niche product but one that porsche invested hundreds of millions and years into the create the latest incarnation. This isn't 1982 and they aren't $34k. The price of 911 today far exceeds the cost of inflation pushing it out of reach of even more people - hence less buyers can afford them. The company needs other products to subsidize this model without a doubt. But they still take the 911 very seriously.
You are free to yearn for the good ol' days but if you don't change with the times you get passed by and die. And don't think for a minute that the new 991 is anything less than a technological marvel and a soon-to-be pioneer in modern performance. The upcoming GT and Turbo cars will blow minds without question.
Ford and Chevy more reliable? Nope - Porsche won as the most reliable and dependable car last year, with the 911 model leading the way. Both in the US by JD Powers and in Europe by their ratings agency.
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2010/...incoln-second/
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/12/12/p...-reliable-car/
You guys can dislike the fact that Porsche makes other models of automobile now and the idea of a VW business attachment, but don't blur the facts to pursued yourselves. There isn't a car maker out there with one model. Porsche would die on the vine making just a 911. It' a niche product but one that porsche invested hundreds of millions and years into the create the latest incarnation. This isn't 1982 and they aren't $34k. The price of 911 today far exceeds the cost of inflation pushing it out of reach of even more people - hence less buyers can afford them. The company needs other products to subsidize this model without a doubt. But they still take the 911 very seriously.
You are free to yearn for the good ol' days but if you don't change with the times you get passed by and die. And don't think for a minute that the new 991 is anything less than a technological marvel and a soon-to-be pioneer in modern performance. The upcoming GT and Turbo cars will blow minds without question.
Last edited by EricP; 01-22-2012 at 09:49 PM.
#50
01-22-2012, 11:17 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: In a Canyon - Really :)
Posts: 4,880
Rep Power: 288 
I would buy a slightly used 997 GT2 in the 120-130K range all day vs a normally aspirated or even S model 991. 110K gets you a ZR1 BTW.
+ the GT2 is much more likely to retain value (something like 200 made?) and will run circles around a 991.
+ the GT2 is much more likely to retain value (something like 200 made?) and will run circles around a 991.
#51
01-23-2012, 07:53 AM
But it's deadly fast. ANd likely not in the $120-130 range for the next 5 years. And regarding ZR1 - the problem with that is it's a corvette.
#52
01-23-2012, 08:09 AM
GT2's are over a quarter of a million dollars new. 600 were made. And you need to check with your city councilman over which roads are about to be re-paved because it shakes your bowels lose over rough roads. I rode in one here in Colorado and our roads are terrible in the city. And our tollways are cement. Even the expansion grooves were killing the ride. You could run over a dime and determine if it was heads of tails. It actually feels as if the wheels are mounted directly to the frame like a little red wagon.
But it's deadly fast. ANd likely not in the $120-130 range for the next 5 years. And regarding ZR1 - the problem with that is it's a corvette.
But it's deadly fast. ANd likely not in the $120-130 range for the next 5 years. And regarding ZR1 - the problem with that is it's a corvette.
I drive my GT2 about 3 to 4 times per week on all different types of roads. And I have owned a 997.2S previously and have driven my friends 997.1TT several times. The 2 is a tad bit firmer but does not shake anything in me, on me or in the car more than the others. If the suspension is in sport setting than its quite a bit firmer than the others in the same setting, but none of them are really tolerable in that setting unless on track.
Just got a full race suspension setup and there is still no shaking of my bowels, but it is much firmer. And only with this aftermarket suspension can I tell you 'heads or tails'
.
#53
01-23-2012, 08:14 AM
...maybe a commentary on our pothole roads our here in CO 
I played Torrey Pines this summer and got to drive around SD and the La Jolla area. Your roads are nice.
I remember the night I took delivery of my C4s last year and on the way home I crossed a fissure in the road-- a shift in the pavement maybe 2 inches at 45MPH and the rear end of the car jumped sideways a little. Our roads are awful. We even have a local-number we can dial to report potholes.
Enjoy your ride!!
I played Torrey Pines this summer and got to drive around SD and the La Jolla area. Your roads are nice.I remember the night I took delivery of my C4s last year and on the way home I crossed a fissure in the road-- a shift in the pavement maybe 2 inches at 45MPH and the rear end of the car jumped sideways a little. Our roads are awful. We even have a local-number we can dial to report potholes.
Enjoy your ride!!
#54
01-23-2012, 08:47 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Russia, Moscow
Age: 48
Posts: 31
Rep Power: 14
Audi RS5 maybe?
#56
01-23-2012, 09:23 AM
Visited 2 local dealers over the weekend. Both received allotments of 3 991S's. 2 were already spoken for. AND there were a lot of shoppers in the pre-owned areas w/little inventory. Don't think they're gonna have a hard time moving new 911's at $124K a pop. Not sure the 6 Speed crown is their target market. My guess is that most on the boards would (a) wait for the 2nd model year and (b) buy it pre-owned w/someone else have eaten the big depreciation. BTW, lotta truth to the car looking more like a GT than a sports car which again, IMO, plays to their target market.
#57
01-23-2012, 09:29 AM
Doom and gloom?!? Guys, Ford and Chevy have always made MUCH more powerful engines. But the Porsche lead in quality and performance is greater now than it's ever been. Send the best of Detroit around the 'ring with a GT car. Or a 991 for that matter.
Ford and Chevy more reliable? Nope - Porsche won as the most reliable and dependable car last year, with the 911 model leading the way. Both in the US by JD Powers and in Europe by their ratings agency.
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2010/...incoln-second/
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/12/12/p...-reliable-car/
You guys can dislike the fact that Porsche makes other models of automobile now and the idea of a VW business attachment, but don't blur the facts to pursued yourselves. There isn't a car maker out there with one model. Porsche would die on the vine making just a 911. It' a niche product but one that porsche invested hundreds of millions and years into the create the latest incarnation. This isn't 1982 and they aren't $34k. The price of 911 today far exceeds the cost of inflation pushing it out of reach of even more people - hence less buyers can afford them. The company needs other products to subsidize this model without a doubt. But they still take the 911 very seriously.
You are free to yearn for the good ol' days but if you don't change with the times you get passed by and die. And don't think for a minute that the new 991 is anything less than a technological marvel and a soon-to-be pioneer in modern performance. The upcoming GT and Turbo cars will blow minds without question.
Ford and Chevy more reliable? Nope - Porsche won as the most reliable and dependable car last year, with the 911 model leading the way. Both in the US by JD Powers and in Europe by their ratings agency.
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2010/...incoln-second/
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/12/12/p...-reliable-car/
You guys can dislike the fact that Porsche makes other models of automobile now and the idea of a VW business attachment, but don't blur the facts to pursued yourselves. There isn't a car maker out there with one model. Porsche would die on the vine making just a 911. It' a niche product but one that porsche invested hundreds of millions and years into the create the latest incarnation. This isn't 1982 and they aren't $34k. The price of 911 today far exceeds the cost of inflation pushing it out of reach of even more people - hence less buyers can afford them. The company needs other products to subsidize this model without a doubt. But they still take the 911 very seriously.
You are free to yearn for the good ol' days but if you don't change with the times you get passed by and die. And don't think for a minute that the new 991 is anything less than a technological marvel and a soon-to-be pioneer in modern performance. The upcoming GT and Turbo cars will blow minds without question.
Or maybe return to 1978 when the 911 had horrible bumpsteer. If you encountered a bump mid corner, the steering wheel tried to yank your hands free. It was only slightly fixed by changing to turbo tie rods.
Or how about the tiny slits that passed for AC vents? I hated driving that car in the southern california summer. It was cooler to drive with the windows down than to have the AC on. I spent $1200.00 back then to have the AC fixed. It was better, but not as good as my Honda Accord.
I'll take a 911 that has all the latest tech and still kicks major butt!
Yeah sure the new 911 is super expensive, but Porsche will sell everyone they make. And those who can't afford a new one, like me, will wait a few years and get a pristine example just off lease. Porsche has enough 911 models to satisfy everyone's taste. Just my two cents.
#58
01-23-2012, 09:50 AM
+ 1 Eric. I keep reading all the posts regarding how people yearn for the good old days when the 911 was a "pure sports car" whatever that means. Maybe some want to return to the the years of 1974-1977 when the 911 backfired and caused the airbox to blow up. Not to mention the the engine problems those cars had.
Or maybe return to 1978 when the 911 had horrible bumpsteer. If you encountered a bump mid corner, the steering wheel tried to yank your hands free. It was only slightly fixed by changing to turbo tie rods.
Or how about the tiny slits that passed for AC vents? I hated driving that car in the southern california summer. It was cooler to drive with the windows down than to have the AC on. I spent $1200.00 back then to have the AC fixed. It was better, but not as good as my Honda Accord.
I'll take a 911 that has all the latest tech and still kicks major butt!
Yeah sure the new 911 is super expensive, but Porsche will sell everyone they make. And those who can't afford a new one, like me, will wait a few years and get a pristine example just off lease. Porsche has enough 911 models to satisfy everyone's taste. Just my two cents.
Or maybe return to 1978 when the 911 had horrible bumpsteer. If you encountered a bump mid corner, the steering wheel tried to yank your hands free. It was only slightly fixed by changing to turbo tie rods.
Or how about the tiny slits that passed for AC vents? I hated driving that car in the southern california summer. It was cooler to drive with the windows down than to have the AC on. I spent $1200.00 back then to have the AC fixed. It was better, but not as good as my Honda Accord.
I'll take a 911 that has all the latest tech and still kicks major butt!
Yeah sure the new 911 is super expensive, but Porsche will sell everyone they make. And those who can't afford a new one, like me, will wait a few years and get a pristine example just off lease. Porsche has enough 911 models to satisfy everyone's taste. Just my two cents.
#59
01-23-2012, 09:54 AM
Visited 2 local dealers over the weekend. Both received allotments of 3 991S's. 2 were already spoken for. AND there were a lot of shoppers in the pre-owned areas w/little inventory. Don't think they're gonna have a hard time moving new 911's at $124K a pop. Not sure the 6 Speed crown is their target market. My guess is that most on the boards would (a) wait for the 2nd model year and (b) buy it pre-owned w/someone else have eaten the big depreciation. BTW, lotta truth to the car looking more like a GT than a sports car which again, IMO, plays to their target market.
#60
01-23-2012, 01:29 PM
Interesting point about 6speeders possible not being representative of 911 owners overall. My guess is that 6speeders are, on average, somewhat younger, less affluent, more interested in cars in general, more interested in performance, more interested in mods, more likely to drive on the track, and more aggressive drivers on public roads. Of course, this is all somewhat speculative.