Because it's in Dallas...

 

I feel that everyone at some point will likely stop the upgrading to the new model. You come to a point in your life where you feel that the value simply isn't there. Those will likely keep their car or buy a pre owned more powerful car since it gives them value. It's all perception of value and for many it is a once in a lifetime purchase. Funny how many said that the first time but came many more time for more of the koolaid.

While this 991 is more expensive than its predecessor, they will sell plenty of them. Maybe after a year they will assess if their price point was spot on or off by a bit and make changes accordingly.

 

Just to add how much they profit... dealer's cost for fully optioned 997.1 CS4 = around $60.... that's how much my buddy paid who did a favor for the dealer owner = I bet the dealer owner still made money.

 

I agree got a great deal on my 09 and have made some mods to my liking....just can't see paying for a new car when I still love my low mile 09.

 

You, my friend, are drinking from the "Kool-aid". Besides the "not very publicized" issues brought up by another member, let's also not forget the 2nd gear pop-out on some of the 996 and Porsche's inability to take care of what was an obvious defect. Initial quality surveys are crap and I still contend ALL manufacturers are bringing things forward now faster than ever and it takes a bit for problems to surface. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and you certainly have yours, but "None of the points of the previous posters were valid" ?

 

To Red Devil. Yep. Agree. I did not want to respond to get into a hissing game. Porsche makes MORE money if they can reduce services and repairs during warranty.... SO assume that will work that angle pretty hard. Somebody gets a bog bonus check if they meet those targets. That's how it works.

 

So now we are going back to the 996? Thats odd.

I'd take my chances with a modern Porsche (read 2009 997.2 and on including a 991) and as far as sports cars, i'm hard pressed to name another marque thats better as far as quality and reliability goes. But YMMV

 

+1. In every market, cars, golf equipment, musical instruments, you get these guys that hate on the new and preach that things will never be as good as they were. Tired, but expected.

With golf it's blade irons or death.. and a return to small headed drivers. With music gear it's "nothing sounds better than a '59 les paul - the new stuff is crap".

Whatever. This car and Porsche in general is in a good place in this economic climate. I expect nothing but a bettering of the model as we proceed through the 991 phases...991 GT cars, RS models, etc..

 

I kind of see from the same pov. Old is good, new is bad. Change is often not accepted with open arms. You see this with change in corporations all the time.

The 991 with prove many people wrong, but will they admit it to themselves?

 

In every market, cars, golf equipment, musical instruments, you get these guys that love on the new and preach that things are always better than they were. Tired, but expected.

You do seem rather sure of your viewpoint, to the extent that you said those who made opposing points said nothing valid.

You seem to be of the opinion that since the 991 is faster than the 997 then it is better. Period. End of story. When someone points out that another car is faster than the 991, you ignore your own criterion -- that faster is better -- and dismiss the faster non-Porsche by saying it's not a Porsche and therefore not as good, e.g., "The problem is it's a Corvette."

Simple, then: If it's faster, newer and it's a Porsche, then it's better. Glad that's settled.

Newer isn't always better. Faster isn't always more fun. Older isn't always better. Slower often isn't more fun. They don't make them like they used to. Sometimes that's good. Sometimes that's bad.

 

Well said. I had an '81 911SC and loved it. I don't think that it is what Porsche should be building today.

Most of what has been written about the 991 is extremely positive. However, some of the things written give me real concern. FWIW, the latest issue of Octane has a little article about the 991 and says, like Automobile did, that it may be too perfect. That sounds silly to many, but I get it. They also specifically say that the electric steering is a major step in the wrong direction.

The 991 is almost certainly a car that I will have huge respect for, but I don't know yet if I will want one. I want to want one. For me, I need to not only respect it, but love it in order to want it. I won't know until I drive it.

Now that the 997 is on its way out and we're reading in the press about all sorts of flaws we never knew it had, I can't help but wonder if, 7 or so years from now when the 991's replacement is introduced, we'll all be reading about how the 991's electric steering was really dull and lacked feel.

 

No hissing game but IB know-it-alls that dismiss valid and numerous contrary (to theirs) opinions need to be responded to. My point is not now or ever to say that new is bad and old is good. There are those Porsche followers that think water-cooled 911's are the anti-Christ, and that's just crazy. However, they speak with their wallets and that's fine. Just look at 993 TT prices vs. 996 TT prices. I would drive a 996 TT all day over a 993 and it's a bonus if it costs even less. My 2 points about the evolution of cars in general and specifically the 911: is they are increasingly complex and the costs are going up more noticeable than they have in recent years. I understand there's a price to pay for advancement, and in some ways, maybe most, the car could be "better". That's super-subjective and you like what you like. Most won't complain about a "modern" interior but plenty can gripe about "elecric" steering. Especially if/when it breaks. For me, how the car feels in steering, braking, suspension, throttle-response, etc. is of the utmost importance. Looks are important too, but while driving my eyes are not staring at the outside of my car nor the interior. My body is in tune to what the car is doing to me and how it responds to me. The technology is now at the point where manufacturer's can create a car that gives you almost full control (adjustments) over the driving dynamic at your fingertips. Many of them are this way. Too many things to adjust aren't good and it's more stuff that will probably break, especially when it's a new(er) technology. I will drive the 991 2WD S but highly doubt it "feels" better to me than the 997.2 GT3 I'm currently after. No doubt for the masses, the 991 is a better car. We can argue good, better & best all day and no one will likely change our opinions b/c that's why we're called "enthusiasts"...

 

I hear where the naysayers are coming from - I just get my fur up when I hear comments like (from another thread) "Porsche is losing their way - venturing into luxury cars with this model", and "This 911 isn't like any 911 in the past - it's VW's fault", and other especially negative comments about the like-ness to a GT-R.

I get it - I know the electromechanical feel - I owned a 79 911 SC. I understand. But so do the engineers in Stuttgart. Each new iteration brings improvements and technology is not the devil.

The engineers at Porsche are building race worthy cars designed to beat the competition. They aren't going to sacrifice winning races so you can feel twitchiness of rear end. And they aren't going to build technology into the race cars but sell you something different so you "feel the soul and heritage" of the '1983 911 you owned back in the day.

I think you guys just fear your wife taking your car to the mall

Let's just drive them and see - I could be wrong.

 

A key question is whether a new model of a car can improve objective performance while also retaining (or enhancing) the subjectively 'classic' appeal of the older model. To some extent, I think that's possible via reducing weight, changes in track and wheelbase, lower CG, suspension tuning, etc. (think Cayman R). But there are also limits to that, which is why we also see more and more high-tech stuff being used (think GT-R). Going from the 997 to 991, it seems that both approaches have been used, so maybe the car is 'better' and 'worse' simultaneously.

For those who really want to stay old school, the best bet may be to get an older model in good condition and hold on to it as long as possible.

 

She already does...and gets compliments from the other gals.