IMHO we have lost sight of the OP. Is the car fast, yes. Can the car move through the gears and feel great, yes. Is it a blast on tight, winding roads, yes. Can it launch off a line, yes. Is sport+ a kick, yes. Etc., etc. HOWEVER, in normal driving, when the light turns green and the sport button isn't on, it does feel heavy/luggy/whatever. Is that a problem for me, no. Can it be compensated for and will that become normal behavior for most, yes. But this is also why I maintain that the car should allow you to always start in sport mode. The expectation of some is that the car should pull/feel somewhat spirited in its "lowest" mode without compensation. Can't disagree with that.

 

Personally I think it's the 991, not the 3.4L.

The new 991's lack the visceral feel of the previous 997.2's, even if they are faster. It's amazing what some vibration, noises s feed back does for the butt dyno

Also, every motor has a 3000-4000rpm range where it sings. You have to adjust your driving to the motor.

I had a TTRS and that 5 pot is a torque monster, but it didn't really rev. The power was where most people drive so it felt fast to everyone (it was)

I just sold my R8 V10 and although it revved to 8000rpm, it did very little below 4000rpm. You had to keep it there for the magic to happen. Most people would get in and shift around 6000rpm and then complain there is no drama.

In contrast, I would step into my V12 Vantage and it would have lots of torque and power down low, but run out by 6500 rpm. Leaving you with 3500-4000 rpm to play with. Lots of grunt in a very accessible place. It revs so quickly though. You really need to pay attention if pushing it hard.

I sold the R8 V10 for a Cayman R that would spend most of its time on a track. The Cayman R has a lot less torque, but once again you get between 3500-4000rpm to play with. Keep it there and the car is fun. It's the visceral quality of that car that makes it feel fast on the street and the balance that makes it on the track. The Cayman is more about dynamic and intimacy than power.

Some drivers just love to uncover the engine. They seek out the tricks, the shifts, the strategies required to get all it had. Others want it right there for the taking. Broad power, instantly available. For that you should go forced induction or V8.

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For those that don't push performance (I'd speculate the majority of all car owners), the 3.4 is plenty fun. It's like comparing an Aston 4.3 vs 4.7. For those that NEVER floor the throttle, they will likely never know the difference.

But for those of us that do - I'm sure there is a higher expectation from a $100k sports car in regards to performance. Why put any R&D into the 3.4 to make it faster than the outgoing 3.8? Why not just use that R&D and less parts to improve on the old 3.8, and make it a LOT faster, etc...?

Win/win.

 

Interesting new article I just came across over at one of my favorite german car magazine... Titled (rough translation): 'How much sports car do you need?'

Link: http://www.sportauto.de/vergleichste...h-5998089.html

They pit the new BMW M6 against the base 991, and although they love both, and obviously the M6 is a torque powerhouse, the base 991 was a split second faster around the (little) Hockenheim.

Now that is damn impressive. It shows you what "only" 350 hp with a light car can do.

 

could be because I'm coming from a 370z but my "base" Carrera is a blast to drive

 

A six month old vid from C&D is an interesting test of the 3.4 manual, just the images of the 991 pushing through the turns is great fun. I apologize if it was posted previously :

 

Interesting, this debate. I went and test drove a Merc C63 AMG today as a daily driver, you know, something which would really bury me in the seat with it's low-end torque. I struggle to think of a more torquey European car on the market today.

After driving it back to back with my base 991, I wasn't blown away. I think I may be willing to admit that I've just gotten too used to fast cars. While the numbers still show that the 991 isn't a great mid range performer, driving it as I do in manual mode above 3k most of the time, the gap between it and this torque monster Merc wasn't that big.

Go fig.

 

I really feel for you guys who love the MT concept and got a car that disappoints; especially when I know the quick off the line response with the PDK is what I love most about this car. It is much more fun than my 2009 C2S PDK.
Sorry guys.

ChuckJ

 

As much as I like the base, I do understand your point jasper. It looks to me like there's not much difference between the two engines. They have the same stroke so they could use the same crank and save cost (perhaps they have). The S has a slightly higher lifting cam. They could use the same cam and save cost. They both have the same fuel system, electrical and air intake as well as the same compression. Both are balanced very well and I've been told to the same spec. They both have the same red line RPM and are rated at the same RPM. I suspect the S does not have $15,000 worth of extra cost and I suspect the base guys are getting subsidized by the S guys. So why not make them all S cars and reduce the cost a little.

ChuckJ

 

I have an "S" but have re-badged the back of the car with a simple "911", because that's what matters the most



PS: My advice to those who are "disappointed": S or not, naturally aspirated P-car engines are meant to be driven in a certain way. If you do not like it, trade your car in and you'll still have lots of dough to buy a turbo or supercharged car.

 

I test drove the 3.4 and the S various times. They both lack low end torque. Personally I found the 3.4 more rev-happy and liked the sound a bit more, while the S was better on the Autobahn above 150mph.

991 is more about the options, Sport PASM and Chrono do make more difference than 3.4 or 3.8, IMHO.

If you want low end torque, buy a Diesel or go for the 911 Turbo. The S is a big victory for Porsche's marketing dept, but nothing more. Same will be with the upcoming Turbo -- now 80% will go for the "Turbo S". And not because the non-S Turbo is too slow.

 

yes....this is simlpy thrue

 

Umm..I have a PDK and it is an S. I said I was talking about one specific case...the light going to green in normal traffic. Can I rabbit start, kick down or launch it, well yes I can. But if I put my foot down in a normal way, not in sport mode, the car (and my 997 when I had it) is luggy compared to any other non-porsche vehicle I have owned (car or SUV). 90% of the time coming out of my driveway I go to sport mode and this problem goes away or if I am heavier with the pedal. For this situation only, I think it is throttle mapping and pedal travel vs torque.

 

If you put your foot on the accelerator quickly, it should rev to 3500 RPM and the car will leap forward. It will sound like it's spinning the tires (engine revs) without the tire squealing sound. If it doesn't, the PDK may be out of adjustment and you could take it in. Conversely, if you put your foot down at a normal rate, it will accelerate more slowly and not immediately rev to 3500. And you are right, in normal mode it goes into second, third, etc. earlier than I would shift- that's why I normally shift it myself. I don't think there's a difference in this regard though between the base and the S. In my 2009 C2S if I put my foot down quickly from a start, the PDK would lock up the clutches and lug the engine down, not allowing it to rev up the the bottom of the good part of the torque curve and lugging the engine for a second or so. In that car to get a quick acceleration I had to manage how fast I put the accelerator down.

ChuckJ

 

Yes on both counts. I think they do this (and non-sport starting only) for gas mileage/marketing but it really kills the car. Someone in corporate is dictating to the engineers and most of the marketeers since it is so easily fixed (sport button remembered as part of the key/car memory). I also have moved to using the paddles (manual mode) and sport + more in normal driving.