You asked for an opinion . I will give you mine . It will be honest and it will not be sugar coated.

In my opinion it is absurd to throw 50K away to lease a car . There is no car worth it. In simplistic terms - I feel that leasing sucks !! Porsche leasing in my opinion really sucks !! One ends up with no equity . He faces mileage restrictions , surrender fees , and basically has commited his rational mind to their terms with his money for TWO years to end up with NOTHING.

I don't even like financing a car . I realize that a car is a necessity and interest rates are low but i am tired of hearing the irrational mantra of (paraphrasing) "my money will work for me elsewhere" or "I need to build credit to buy biggger things" or " I am a business owner" (ha ha .. do the math on 3 two years leases Vs one 6 years outight purchased car ,, and that's if he doesn't lose the business) .

Bottom line .. if the car is too expensive to buy outright .. accept it . save the money . Don't buy the car . Any time you ever doubt it .. just look at the 50K that you almost threw away and count how many months past . Wait a few years and you can buy the same car used for that 50K so time is on your side . In short one can buy the same car if he simply has patience.

If one has to finance .. then Suze Orman says "3 years" to paid off . I think shes being politely realistic but i also don't think shes talking about financing 122K Porsches .

Consider this .. the depreciation on the car is huge . The 991 happens to really fall hard compared to other previous Porsches in its price range . It's going to be expensive no matter how one views it but my strong opinion is to buy the car outright and keep it for many years if one must have it .

 

I respectfully disagree that leasing sucks. I think leasing is very risky, because for those that don't fully understand all of the variables it is an easy way for the Stealer to hit you extra hard. However, if you fully understand it, then in some situations it makes perfect sense.

I have a 991 7T on 27 month lease. I was able to get about 9% off the car. So if you take a $100K MSRP car, that I negotiate to 91K and get a lease residual of 78K, I'm paying for 13K of deprication, plus interest at 4.8% (i.e. the interest equivalent of a .002 mf). I realize if I bought the car I would have saved on interest if I financed the purchase as the rate would have been about 2%-2.25%. Over the life of the lease this means I am paying $3500 in "extra interest" in the lease, as compared to a purchase w/ financing. However, in exchange for that I have a nice option to buy. Thus, if the true market residual at the end of my lease is way down, I can just walk and PFS is stuck with the loss.

Worst case, I paid $3500 (think option premium) more than if I bought on day 1. However, if PFS missed the mark on residual then I win. I have a 27 mos. call option on the car. Likewise, if you buy the car and get in an accident you have to worry about a carfax ding on the VIN, on a lease just return the car and that is PFS' problem.

Seems like a fair cost for the flexibility. That being said, I know there are plenty of people that get shafted on leases..... easy kill for many dealers.

 

There are many other potential "worst case" scenenarios and overlooked items .

You are only looking at this based on a 27 month snapshot of a term. Thats part of the problem . You are commited for 27 months and chances are that wholesale value might be lower than your buyout number entrapping you even further into the term . Imagine driving a car that you want to trade or sell but in order to do it you would have to pay the buyout number and trade it for an added loss . Or you can sit in it for 27 months buying tires, brakes, and paying for service (part of the leasing trap) because they got you !!

Being stuck in a contract is in itself an issue . It's one of the reasons against financing too (not just leasing) . Buying the car outright ends the financial obligation on day one . No matter what circumstances arise in ones life he has equity . If one lost his buisness , became ill, or or faced an economic hiccup the car is a tangilble owned asset . If his wife got pregnant and they need an SUV or if the car simply didn't satisfy his needs or expecations .. he has the freedom to choose without fullfilling any permission slips from a lender. The owner is the captain of his ship .. not PFS.

 

Well said. A car is basically a depreciation and interest expense, and lease agreements capture both predictively while giving you options to buy if it's beneficial to you.

I've leased 4 cars, and bought three at the end of of the lease because they were in the money.

 

Did you negotiate your lease yet? I'm thinking of doing a 24 or 27 on a C2S or C4S. Also in Atlanta. Which dealer do u recommend?

 

I've been wondering when I'd see you over here....


I've been working with Jim Ellis. Coldlist has worked with them as well as Hennesy, seem to be about the same. They'll deal on cars they have in inventory, I've had a harder time getting them to deal on custom orders--haven't tried that hard yet though.

I haven't pulled the trigger yet.

Here's the January numbers-

For a 2014 C2S 7MT in January- PDK is 1% lower.

24mo 10k miles = 72% residual, 12k miles = 71%

27mo 10k = 70%, 12k = 69%

36mo 10k = 59%, 12k = 58%

 

LLWLF- Are you coming from another brand? If so have they offered you the conquest program? Whats the MF? Still .020? You should be getting anywhere from 5-7% off MSRP. Otherwise shop out of state as well.


yrralis1 glad you bought your Porsche. You propose a lot of what ifs. If you had financed to the car and needed to dump it you would take a loss as well. The same with cash. In a lease you can get rid of the car through lease trader, swap lease etc. as well. With any of these cases the car still depreciates.

"You are committed for 27 months and chances are that wholesale value might be lower than your buyout number entrapping you even further into the term "

How would you be further entrapped past the 27 months of the lease? The purpose of the lease if to negotiate a car at a monthly rate for a fixed period of time. In this case it would be 27 months. Often times Porsche is willing to accommodate the customer by pulling forward the lease and allowing you to move to a new car within the P family.

Leases are popular for a reason, and its not necessarily because it’s too expensive to purchase. A lot of people do not want to buy the car cash and keep for 5-7 years. They would rather “rent” it for a shorter period of time and pay for only that 2-3 year period. Like many of the folks in here I could pay for anyone of the Porsche cash no problem. You are neglecting to recognize the opportunity cost of a 6-figure outlay of cash on a depreciating liability, which is ridiculous. Might be time for you to visit your Schwab or UBS advisor.

 

Thanks. Seems like mf is quite high 0.0020.

Also I am running into an issue of the MSRP being too high. The one I like is 129700 but Jim Ellis say they can't residual anything above 119,800 so basically you end up allocating the full cost of $10k of options into a 27 month lease.

Has anyone encountered this MRM residual cap before?

 

This was my first lease so can't say I was familiar with it. But it applied to my lease too. Edmunds website confirmed it. Basically the more over that price you are, the less beneficial the lease would be. I think (anyone jump in if I'm wrong), it's more important what your discounted price is in comparison to the MRM. So you should definitely be able to bargain below that, especially if that car is already in the inventory.

 

Yes, the residual percentage is based on the MRM (and they are different depending on the model of car) so anything above the MRM is not residualized...you do pay for the entire overage over the term of the lease. Best to find out what the MRM is, and lease a car at or below the MRM, for the best deal. Recently, two friends leased (27 month leases) 2013 C4S coupes (PDK) which had an MRM around $126k and their cars stickered at $124k and $125k, so they were below, and got a discount below that...needless to say, they got great lease deals. Hope that makes sense.

 

This may be a simplistic question, however what MSRP/discount would a C2S have to fall under to get a payment of around $1000/month?

For instance, the 7MT C2S I configure is around $110k. Figure 8% discount and the cost would be roughly $100k.

On a 24 month lease with say $4k down, what would that payment be?

 

The one and the same Stealth Pilot LOL--- dare you get a P car??? ---- Oh Im telling the members at M5 post LOL ... I joke of course, so did you drive and get the feel of the car? Im assuming so since you are in consideration.

As for the MF question .00200 has been this way for years with PFS- its how they rope you in; higher residuals and higher MF's so you are stuck in the car. And of course their residual insurance brings out the MRM as you mentioned. The problem that I had even trying to lease and meet MRM was I didnt get the options I wanted so I just worked the net cap down and down so my non MRM depreciation was nil.

MRM is not new to lessors- Chase did it for years and US Bank does it as well. If they didnt they would take baths at the auction on their lease return fleet. The Porsche addendum is soooooo extensive that the last thing PFS would want to do is residualize all those silly things like leather vents and colored stitching (I say silly in the context of residualizing). PFS has MRM's on all their cars.

There is about 11% in that msrp car so do your best to bring it down and see if the conquest program is in effect as that will add on to your reduction in net cap.

Good luck

 

Haha. Shhh. Don't tell the M5 guys. Plus this is going to be my spare car for when I'm pretending to have a mid life crisis.

Thanks for the advice Vic.

I was able to put together a C4S configuration of $126,465. I think this would probably be pretty close to the MRM. Trouble is I will need to special order it because I doubt anyone else would order a C4S with a lot of luxury features and no sports suspension (I don't like low ride height).

I came up with the following selection:
Premium Pkg+ with 14 way power memory seats
Bose
Agate Grey Metallic Paint
Agate-Grey-Pebble Grey two tone full leather interior
Sport Exhaust
PDK
Power Steering Plus
Sport Design Steering Wheel for PDK
Porsche Crest on Headrests
Leather Key Pouch

 

MRM on the C4S is 126500 as I last checked so you are inline but the special order might not afford you the ability to get as good a deal. I think you are missing the sports chrono package on that car too and as you mentioned you need SPASM or the car will sit high. With SPASM I didnt even need to touch the suspension, low enough visually and excellent over the bumps and hard pavement.

I think you get a car on the ground that might be slightly over optioned but has been sitting and where the dealer is willing to move it. YOur net net will be better as you should get a lower net cap and the options you need.

 

Don't think I'll get PASM since it lowers the suspension by 1cm, and without PASM and PDCC, not sure Sport Chrono adds anything except a stopwatch. Does PASM also make the ride softer or stiffer when in comfort mode?

Maybe I should look for a car on the ground then. What kind of a discount can I get? Jim Ellis has one but it has a MSRP of 129500 and they will only take off 5k. Also its a C2S not a C4S. Didn't see anything worthwhile in inventory at The Collection or Champion.