+911

Suzy991

 

When you're cornering at the limit, 200 ms is long enough to put you into the guardrail.

Try going flat-out in 5th in the Kink at Road America (or the esses at Watkins Glen), and you'll see what I'm talking about......

As I said before, I realize I'm not the "average" driver, and thus I'm not the target audience. The delay is real and makes a big difference in the feel of the car, though. If you ever drive a real racing gearbox, you'll understand why the PDK feels really sluggish in comparison.

 

You are right about that, but I can understand what he is talking about. I've driven a M3 racecar on a track which had a sequential transmission. I think it also had to do with the mechanical feel you get from such a transmission. It doesn't have any delay and you are directly connected to the gearbox (just like a manual). So it feels faster, allthough I also realise that you can't really tell the difference in terms of time, but you can tell the difference in feel. The feeling of being more in control.

But I would never ever want a sequential in my daily driver. It's harsh and uncivilized.

Suzy991

 

I think that the stopwatch would disagree on the track (at least in the hands of a top-level driver). The PDK will be faster with a non-trained driver, while it would be slower with a really fast driver.

So am I, but that's another discussion...

Seriously, it's like traction control - 95% of the time, I don't want it, because it gets in the way. Outside of icy road conditions, it's a hindrance, not a benefit. YMMV.

 

Instead of focussing on how bad/slow the PDK is compared to a full on race sequential dog box, isn't it more relevant to awe at how much faster (I'm not saying better, nor smoother) it is compared to manually shifting ?
If you start comparing any roadcar to racecars, they will all be bad and slow.

Also consider this, after how many "hours" does your race gearbox need to be rebuilt, and after how many "years" does the PDK need to be rebuilt ?

Sidestep. I do notice the lag too when shifting with paddles. Funny thing is, when shifting with the PDK STICK, the lag seems less ! Try it out !

 

Whenever I drive in Europe ( and when I'm not picking up my own euro delivered car) behind the wheel of some rental with a stick, I always seem to have that smile because of the manual. More than that, I think it is also the tremendous number of great driving roads that are available. There is that area around St. Moritz... ahhhh

 

yes there are some epic roads around here in the alps. Actually, the road from where we live to St.Moritz is fantastic! It' a 2 hour drive (the twisty route) and I think that, when I have my C4S, I'll be driving that route pretty often

On topic: when you have to drive a manual on a daily base in for example Holland, where I was born, and you commute to work, get stuck in traffic jams, then a manual gets pretty annoying I can tell you an automatic is so much more relaxed to drive in those conditions. Also when I drive from Switzerland to Belgium at night, I prefer an automatic. Just cruising down the Autobahn with the adaptive cruise control at 180km/h.
But when it comes to inspired driving a manual is always fun. That said... A PDK or other good Dual clutch trannys in manual mode, I can enjoy as much as a true manual.

Suzy991

 

A prime example of that is the new Audi R8 with S-Tronic. The manual 6-speed Spyder does 0-60 in 4 seconds but gets to 60 in just 3.6, a .4-second difference which is quite significant.

 

We are dog lovers and therefore haven't rented or bought a place in the South of France because of the dogs, but they are getting old and when they pass on I will really try to resist replacing them with a new puppy just so we can finally be free to live wherever in the world we want and come and go without worrying about the dogs. If and when that happens, I'll be in driving enthusiast's heaven because the roads of Europe are spectacular. The roads in Florida are dullsville: no hills, no winding, no hairpins, switchbacks, etc. I'll be in Vermont as of tomorrow night and my Healey is now there waiting for me so at least the next 3 months I'll get to enjoy a real sports car on real driver's roads. Yay!

 

+1

Suzy991

 

In a straight line, it's clearly faster - and I get it that for the poseur crowd that buys a lot of these cars, the 0-60 spec line means more than real performance. I'm not sure the same is true in cornering, though, as when you're on the track running at the limit, controlling the timing of everything that happens is a much bigger deal.

True, but I'm just talking about the disconnected feeling from the electronic processing lag. A mechanical or hydraulic link doesn't have that lag - and that has nothing to do with single-purpose vs. street cars.

Again true, but irrelevant in the comparison between manual and auto (PDK).

Will have to do so before placing my order.....hmmmmm.

I wonder why the paddles would have a longer delay? Maybe the serial network link from the wheel assembly?

 

I've met your kind before at the R8 forum: anyone who doesn't track his car is a poseur. Get over yourself.

 

I think you're missing my point. Go back and look at my first post - I started by saying that I realize that I'm not the average driver/buyer. The point I was making is that FOR ME the PDK is sluggish enough that I don't see it as an option that I would take vs. a manual. I'm not making a value judgement, nor am I trying to say that it's the right decision for anyone else. I am well aware that my opinion is not shared by everyone - and that's why most Porsches are custom-ordered.

And no, there are lots of guys who are very serious afficionados who don't track their cars (for a variety of vary good reasons). Heck, I don't track my street cars - I have a dedicated track toy that never will see the road, so I don't have a need to beat up a "nice" car for all-out driving. There are lots of great ways to enjoy cars, and I'm not suggesting that any one way is more valid than another (though I have my preferences, as do most of us). Car shows and poker runs are just as "valid" as full-on racing...different strokes.

By "poseur" I was referring to those who buy by spec sheet and bragging rights, rather than picking the car that drives/performs the best and just enjoying it. They exist in just about every motorsports form.....

 

200ms? What dual clutch takes that long?

That would be crap to me.

Get a dual clutch that changes gears faster, like the PDK or GT-R's dual clutch, or Ferrari's version, etc...

The delay from the time of paddle shift to actual gear selection is easily remedied on track, just like learning a braking point. When you realize you entered a corner too late, you back up the braking point. However, when I'm on track, I do the reverse - start off shifting unnecessarily early, then move that later and later, etc...

As most do when learning braking points... - start really far out, and put it deeper and deeper until you find the perfect entry. The delay from hitting a paddle is not different than the delay from drive-by-wire, or power assist brakes. It is practically instantaneous.

 

Citation needed.