2014 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray vs. 2013 Porsche 911 Carrera S
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How's this - there was, in fact, a Z06 with a Z07 package on the C6 (included tires, etc...). This is just a little while ago when Chevy finally figured out that if they put decent tires on their cars, they put up better stats against their competitors who have been doing it for a while now.
So perhaps the Z07 package on the C7 would still be below the Z06 (*with or without the Z07 package on it).
Possible there will be a C7 Z06 w/Z07 which already comes with the improvements of the Z51.
That isn't confusing at all. Not even getting into 1LT, 2LT, 3LT, etc...
So perhaps the Z07 package on the C7 would still be below the Z06 (*with or without the Z07 package on it).
Possible there will be a C7 Z06 w/Z07 which already comes with the improvements of the Z51.
That isn't confusing at all. Not even getting into 1LT, 2LT, 3LT, etc...
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How's this - there was, in fact, a Z06 with a Z07 package on the C6 (included tires, etc...). This is just a little while ago when Chevy finally figured out that if they put decent tires on their cars, they put up better stats against their competitors who have been doing it for a while now.
So perhaps the Z07 package on the C7 would still be below the Z06 (*with or without the Z07 package on it).
Possible there will be a C7 Z06 w/Z07 which already comes with the improvements of the Z51.
That isn't confusing at all. Not even getting into 1LT, 2LT, 3LT, etc...
So perhaps the Z07 package on the C7 would still be below the Z06 (*with or without the Z07 package on it).
Possible there will be a C7 Z06 w/Z07 which already comes with the improvements of the Z51.
That isn't confusing at all. Not even getting into 1LT, 2LT, 3LT, etc...
this is CAKE compared to Porsches 911 variants.
But I do think CHevy will offer:
Base
Z07
ZR1
GRandsport
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ah yeah....
This is like arguing whether dominican or brazilian women are better in bed.
Corvette people don't see the value in a Porsche. And Porsche people (the kind that buy multiple 911s, join the PCA and maybe even do a track day here or there) don't find the corvette terribly compelling.
I have the 911s, my father has had 8 new corvettes since 1974 incl. a gen I ZR-1 (with the DOHC 4 valve heads - engine not built by GM). That car was pretty cool.
He's got a stingray due in soon - was the first to order locally.
The vettes, in general, have way too much torque for the chassis, flex a lot under hard acceleration (coupes), skip across rough pavement in corners (torsion bar suspension)[although the skinier tires on the C6 helped reduce this] and - here's the coffin nail...start to show sign of use (i.e. cracked leather seats etc...within the first year or 10,000 miles).
I think Vettes are cool and I admire and respect the heritage. But sophistication, durability and finesse will never, and IMHO should never, be a part of the corvette recipe. Its an american Lamborghini. The ZR1 should appeal to the Aventador driver - although we all know that will never happen b/c the vette has no "Look! I just arrived" credentials....
My 2 cents.
BTW, has anyone seen the ruckus autospies has created over the fact that the C7 has repeatedly lapped the ring in testing, but GM hasn't posted the times.....??
Corvette people don't see the value in a Porsche. And Porsche people (the kind that buy multiple 911s, join the PCA and maybe even do a track day here or there) don't find the corvette terribly compelling.
I have the 911s, my father has had 8 new corvettes since 1974 incl. a gen I ZR-1 (with the DOHC 4 valve heads - engine not built by GM). That car was pretty cool.
He's got a stingray due in soon - was the first to order locally.
The vettes, in general, have way too much torque for the chassis, flex a lot under hard acceleration (coupes), skip across rough pavement in corners (torsion bar suspension)[although the skinier tires on the C6 helped reduce this] and - here's the coffin nail...start to show sign of use (i.e. cracked leather seats etc...within the first year or 10,000 miles).
I think Vettes are cool and I admire and respect the heritage. But sophistication, durability and finesse will never, and IMHO should never, be a part of the corvette recipe. Its an american Lamborghini. The ZR1 should appeal to the Aventador driver - although we all know that will never happen b/c the vette has no "Look! I just arrived" credentials....
My 2 cents.
BTW, has anyone seen the ruckus autospies has created over the fact that the C7 has repeatedly lapped the ring in testing, but GM hasn't posted the times.....??
Last edited by drspeed; Sep 19, 2013 at 09:43 AM.
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I think you summed it up well.... but which is the chevy.. domincan or brazilian? Nevermind don't answer that..
So much of this is dominated by personal attitudes, how old you are and perceptions... and I doubt there are two people here who have the exactly same perceptions...
You hit it when you said your father has had Vettes.. That's the problem for me as I view, vettes (as well as Cadillacs) as something for my fathers generation (and I'm already 50 myself).. It will never matter how cool, better etc.. either has become, because to me they are an old guy's car... .... That is what I associate with the "brands"..
Don't get me wrong I think it is amazing what Cadillac what has done with appealing to a younger generation over the last 10 years.. And I think they have reinvented their brand.. I just can't ever get past the brand association with an old lady driving one which is how I viewed them as a kid.. And I know that is just my own personal perception and prejudice..
But I do think GM would be better somehow separating Corvettes from the Chevy brand which I think has always held them back.. Chevy is the cheapest and lowest quality brand of the GM.. And before anyone starts piping in with the inevitable, "but they are so much better now" which I've been hearing repeatedly for every GM/Ford and Chrysler the last 20 years.. I'm reminded of my brand new Chevy POS rental car that stranded me with an engine failure last week..
In the end it is a brand discussion and affinity with a brand.. We hate how Porsche charges us for options that should be standard, but we LOVE the brand.. Depending on the year and model, Vettes are good cars but overall many of us don't have a lot of affinity for Chevy as a Brand anymore.. So in some ways it becomes a visceral discussion of comparing a Chevy to a Porsche..
So much of this is dominated by personal attitudes, how old you are and perceptions... and I doubt there are two people here who have the exactly same perceptions...
You hit it when you said your father has had Vettes.. That's the problem for me as I view, vettes (as well as Cadillacs) as something for my fathers generation (and I'm already 50 myself).. It will never matter how cool, better etc.. either has become, because to me they are an old guy's car... .... That is what I associate with the "brands"..
Don't get me wrong I think it is amazing what Cadillac what has done with appealing to a younger generation over the last 10 years.. And I think they have reinvented their brand.. I just can't ever get past the brand association with an old lady driving one which is how I viewed them as a kid.. And I know that is just my own personal perception and prejudice..
But I do think GM would be better somehow separating Corvettes from the Chevy brand which I think has always held them back.. Chevy is the cheapest and lowest quality brand of the GM.. And before anyone starts piping in with the inevitable, "but they are so much better now" which I've been hearing repeatedly for every GM/Ford and Chrysler the last 20 years.. I'm reminded of my brand new Chevy POS rental car that stranded me with an engine failure last week..
In the end it is a brand discussion and affinity with a brand.. We hate how Porsche charges us for options that should be standard, but we LOVE the brand.. Depending on the year and model, Vettes are good cars but overall many of us don't have a lot of affinity for Chevy as a Brand anymore.. So in some ways it becomes a visceral discussion of comparing a Chevy to a Porsche..
This is like arguing whether dominican or brazilian women are better in bed.
Corvette people don't see the value in a Porsche. And Porsche people (the kind that buy multiple 911s, join the PCA and maybe even do a track day here or there) don't find the corvette terribly compelling.
I have the 911s, my father has had 8 new corvettes since 1974 incl. a gen I ZR-1 (with the DOHC 4 valve heads - engine not built by GM). That car was pretty cool.
He's got a stingray due in soon - was the first to order locally.
The vettes, in general, have way too much torque for the chassis, flex a lot under hard acceleration (coupes), skip across rough pavement in corners (torsion bar suspension)[although the skinier tires on the C6 helped reduce this] and - here's the coffin nail...start to show sign of use (i.e. cracked leather seats etc...within the first year or 10,000 miles).
I think Vettes are cool and I admire and respect the heritage. But sophistication, durability and finesse will never, and IMHO should never, be a part of the corvette recipe. Its an american Lamborghini. The ZR1 should appeal to the Aventador driver - although we all know that will never happen b/c the vette has no "Look! I just arrived" credentials....
My 2 cents.
BTW, has anyone seen the ruckus autospies has created over the fact that the C7 has repeatedly lapped the ring in testing, but GM hasn't posted the times.....??
Corvette people don't see the value in a Porsche. And Porsche people (the kind that buy multiple 911s, join the PCA and maybe even do a track day here or there) don't find the corvette terribly compelling.
I have the 911s, my father has had 8 new corvettes since 1974 incl. a gen I ZR-1 (with the DOHC 4 valve heads - engine not built by GM). That car was pretty cool.
He's got a stingray due in soon - was the first to order locally.
The vettes, in general, have way too much torque for the chassis, flex a lot under hard acceleration (coupes), skip across rough pavement in corners (torsion bar suspension)[although the skinier tires on the C6 helped reduce this] and - here's the coffin nail...start to show sign of use (i.e. cracked leather seats etc...within the first year or 10,000 miles).
I think Vettes are cool and I admire and respect the heritage. But sophistication, durability and finesse will never, and IMHO should never, be a part of the corvette recipe. Its an american Lamborghini. The ZR1 should appeal to the Aventador driver - although we all know that will never happen b/c the vette has no "Look! I just arrived" credentials....
My 2 cents.
BTW, has anyone seen the ruckus autospies has created over the fact that the C7 has repeatedly lapped the ring in testing, but GM hasn't posted the times.....??
Last edited by scatkins; Sep 19, 2013 at 11:22 AM.
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Good point... I think Porsche has flirted with that problem over the years.. Even when I was a kid I thought 914's were kinda cheesy.. and always considered them a bug with a different chassis...
I think for Porsche as a brand it is a slippery slope... you create new car models to attract more people to the brand. Using the brand appeal as a way of leveraging in more people. But you also risk alienating the core and diminishing the brand if you aren't careful..
It seems Porsche if it isn't careful is liable to dilute themselves too much.. Not necessarily just the VW influence which I know bothers a lot of Porsche purists, but also With SUV's and Panameras..
I can see how they would want to pull in parts of the BMW and Mercedes oriented markets with that.. I'm not saying Cayannes and Panameras aren't good cars.. It's just that's not what I personally want to think about as associated with a Porsche... I'd rather think of those models more as an Audi with a different badge on it..
I've always thought of Porsche as a brand in terms of sports cars and performance.. And I don't mind them becoming more luxurious...and think I think the Boxsters and Caymans are good entry model cars..
But eventually the 911 could become the Corvette of the line, with the Panamera as the Impala... That's a hideous terrible thought.... And I'm not even sure exactly where they are going with some of the hybrids.. Maybe we could have a cayman as the Volt of the line..
I think for Porsche as a brand it is a slippery slope... you create new car models to attract more people to the brand. Using the brand appeal as a way of leveraging in more people. But you also risk alienating the core and diminishing the brand if you aren't careful..
It seems Porsche if it isn't careful is liable to dilute themselves too much.. Not necessarily just the VW influence which I know bothers a lot of Porsche purists, but also With SUV's and Panameras..
I can see how they would want to pull in parts of the BMW and Mercedes oriented markets with that.. I'm not saying Cayannes and Panameras aren't good cars.. It's just that's not what I personally want to think about as associated with a Porsche... I'd rather think of those models more as an Audi with a different badge on it..
I've always thought of Porsche as a brand in terms of sports cars and performance.. And I don't mind them becoming more luxurious...and think I think the Boxsters and Caymans are good entry model cars..
But eventually the 911 could become the Corvette of the line, with the Panamera as the Impala... That's a hideous terrible thought.... And I'm not even sure exactly where they are going with some of the hybrids.. Maybe we could have a cayman as the Volt of the line..
Last edited by scatkins; Sep 19, 2013 at 12:54 PM.
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I hate to be cynical but when it comes to manufacturers claiming track use will not void the warranty, I am very skeptical. I would read the warranty and all associated exclusions very carefully.
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How's this - there was, in fact, a Z06 with a Z07 package on the C6 (included tires, etc...). This is just a little while ago when Chevy finally figured out that if they put decent tires on their cars, they put up better stats against their competitors who have been doing it for a while now.
I had a '07 Z06 without the Z07 package (it wasn't offered) and it was a handful. Why you would of thought you were driving a 70's 911 the way the rear end would engage in a fist fight with the front end to determine who would go through the corner first.
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Turbos are great for efficiency - but so is carbon fiber!!!
All cars that don't have a high performance component should have turbos. But turbo ferraris?? no No NO! I get it that F1 is going turbo - its globally responsible, good for manufacturers (like mercedes and renault) to share tech with road cars, but we consumers part with our money for one reason - not for lap times, or to comply with regulations, we do it to satisfy our passions. And nothing does that like naturally aspirated throttle response. I have a 13' BMW X6 and it has nearly imperceptible lag - until you drive a cayenne S... But Porsche is apparently smarter than Ferrrai b/c the new Panamera S/4S have moved to turbo V6s while the GTS remains....a NA V8. Super kudos to Porsche.
Forget turbo 4 cyls. You want good mileage and high performance...I say the answer is high revving NA engines with additional torque via hybrid drive and dramatically reduced curb weight..... That's the car for me. Oh wait they have it already. And its the fastest car ever tested at the Ring...
DRP
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For tracking it is. Important to
1) change oil to 15-50w mobil one( normally. 5-30w)
2) change brake fluid to > 279 degC boiling point (qualifies )
3) install brake rotor rings
4)alignment settings for track
5) tires 26 psi
6) change rear axle fluid after every 24 hrs track time
Pages 9-5 to 9-7section on track and competitive driving
Not sure if all this needs for done for DE events but failure of a component due to not following some/all instructions could likely void warranty
Easier to keep tracking my GT3
) w/ legal, P specifically excludes tracking.
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It is interesting that "there is" a track section in the C7 owner's manual. Those who are getting a 991 GT3 PDK for 130K+ not likely to be covered warranty wise on track. Plus the on track insurance premium because "things happen" would be $$$