Thanks for the link. May I ask, have you actually driven an R8? It doesn't handle like a 991. I don't make my comments based on what I read online or in reviews. I drive the cars and come to my own conclusions. If we disagree, no problem, but that was my honest impression after driving the R8.

 

On an ordered car, I was offered 3% discount. I have not gotten into real bargaining yet, however.

 

"Wow".....

I have a "Wow" for you too!

To say that 2 of the finest handling products in their category are "not close" is ....Unicorn and KoolAid Land. Whenever I hear hyperbole like that, I cringe. You'll find that there are many vehicles with 9/10, A- to A+, handling. I remember how the E92M3 was not "anywhere close" to the 997S...until it beat it in several tests (lightning lap and so forth). I even had the luck of having a 6-time Solo National Champ run my M3 against my 997.2S times. I'll have to post the videos. I don't recall him saying anything good about my 911. he sorta mocked it actually....His times...and mine too, were 0.75 seconds faster on the M3 than the 997S. Both on PS2 tires, identical tracks.

Anyway, here is a nice link that I think is pretty fair:

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/carg...d_vantage.html

...all amazing vehicles.......

 

Fight Koolaid with Koolaid.

 

The deal breaker for the M4 is the sound. The beautiful sounding motor from my ex e92 M3 has been replaced by this?

 

Yes, I have driven a R8, probably not as much as I would like given the bad weather around here. My current car is a 2014 V10 Plus with s-tronic, before that I had two R8 V10 spyders with manuals and before that owned 15 911's of assorted variety. Have driven the 991 as well.

Considering how hard it is to find a R8 V10 Plus to test drive, combined with your rather over-the-top comment, leaves me a bit skeptical.

 

I have a 2012 3.4 7spd manual that I have used as a daily driver for 2 years. I have never been thrilled with it. It looks nice and handles well but the motor is underpowered and there is no getting away from that fact. I found the 3.6 997 that I traded in for this one a much more satisfying drive and wish I had never made the trade. In my opinion VW has "dumbed down" the Porsche brand and is charging more and giving less. I would not own a turbo or GT3 without the Metzger engine which ended in 09' for the turbo and 2011 for the GT3. If the new engines were so great Porsche would be racing them. With regard to the Macan , both the Macan S and Macan "turbo" use a turbo engine so in reality both are turbos. The only difference is the one labeled a "turbo" has more boost and cost $20k more. Even the dealer can reflash the S to have power equal to the labeled turbo so Macan buyers would be well served to get the S and a reflash and save big bucks. All that being said, when it's time to get rid of my car (which is any moment now) I will go to a 2009 turbo if I can find one or simply switch brands. Since I am tall my options are somewhat limited but unless Porsche stops being stingy with the HP on 911's I can't see myself buying another. I know I will hear a chorus of "Porsche is not about HP it's about the experience and handling blah blah" but who says we must settle for one or the other? Why won't Porsche deliver a car that has handling as well as HP at a price competitive with others in the segment? In my opinion there are far too many variants. Base, S, GTS, GT3 , turbo, turbo S, power kit option.....

 

Drove an M3. And given the weight of the car and the engine placement there will be a tendency to oversteer. I was a physics major - are you

 

I think there's no real way to answer the question unless and until you've gotten some signficant seat time in the C2 and the M4. I owned an E93 M3 and currently drive a 991 C2S. I personally think the C2S is a cut above the E9x M3. But I have no doubt that the new M4 will be dynamically superior to the old M3 (though it sure won't sound as great; the S65 engine is one of the best ever), and I've never driven a C2. The dynamics in the C2 are great I'm sure, but you'll be down significant HP and low end torque to the M4.

 

Depends whether you want a "Sports Car" or a 2-door "Sports Sedan"

 

Surely BMW won't release the car sounding like that. The 435i sounds better than that.

 

No reviews in the press yet. They are likely fine tuning the sound track! There is no urgency to the sound right now.

 

I happen to agree with much of this but will point out a few areas where I differ .

First in regards to the Macan Turbo if one looks at the options of an S vs a Turbo he wil notice that many of the standard options on a Turbo are expensive options on an S . This has been detailed in the Macan section but the "20" K difference can actually be shaved down to about 12K. Also keep in mind that flashing the software on a PDK SUV does not come without huge warranty risks . This is Porsches first PDK SUV . This is not the same as flashing an 09 997 Turbo where a stage 2 or 3 clutch can be installed to safeguard reliability with these aftermarket upgrades .

I also don't feel that porsche has been stingy on horsepower but it will take a Turbo S to really point to a great price value in the 991 . At the 185K price point the Turbo S can compete with cars priced significantly higher. The 125K 991S can not offer the same.

I do feel that an 09 Turbo with a software flash, an exhaust , a few suspension tweaks is a heck of a car . In fact I kept my 07 Turbo and have no plans on selling it to venture into a 991.

 

Points well taken, however with regard to the reflash on the Macan my service advisor at the Collection ( which I believe is your dealer as well) told me that if done at the dealer the warranty is unaffected. It sounds like you can save $12k going that route if your figures are accurate.

If you hear of a 2009 turbo couple ( manual) for sale let me know. I am patiently waiting for the right one. I think they can be had in the 80's

 

It's fine if you don't believe me. Enjoy your R8s. It's a great car, just not my cup of tea. I didn't mean to upset JohnM or you. My apologies. And perhaps to say "not close" is going too far on my part. I have had a lot of time in 991s and only 45 minutes or so in an R8, but I just didn't like the way it handled as much.