This is one of the problems with America these days - everyone wants a bargain, quality be damned. People will knock themselves out to save 50 cents on their jeans, not caring that it's made in an Indonesian sweat shop instead of a nice air-conditioned factory in South Carolina. Those (now) unemployed garment workers in SC care, I can tell you that. Most Americans are so concerned with the price that they don't think about the cost.

Back to Porsches... when I was getting ready to sell my 996 cab, I considered trading it in on a Chevy. They offered me low wholesale because there was no record of the 30K service on it. I did it myself, says I. Well, we'll need to have it done again so that it shows on the carfax, they said. I didn't buy the Chevy, and I sold the 996 myself on eBay. When the buyer did the PPI, it showed that (surprise!) I had not had the 30K service done. I told the buyer that I did it myself and he was satisfied with that. But some people will not be, and if you are the type to trade it in to a dealer rather than sell it yourself, you could get dinged by this in the end.

When I bought my used Mercedes, it had full service records from the dealer, oil changes, etc. which means that the owner did maintain it properly, and as such I paid a premium for the car. The same car in the same condition without the service history (i.e. DIY) would not bring the same money. Sure, you shouldn't own and maintain your car for the next guy, but unless you plan to keep it forever, you should occasionally think about resale. Now, if I had bought the car directly from the original owner and he had a well-equipped garage and showed me the receipts for doing it himself, I would have been fine with that. But it seems that fewer people these days want to bother with selling a car themselves, and having done it myself many times, I understand why. It's a pain.

Of course even after writing all this, I still plan to do all of my maintenance myself - partly to save money I'll admit, but also because I enjoy doing it and bonding with the car. I have the tools and the knowledge to do it right, and I keep all of my receipts to show the next owner that I did at least buy the oil and filter...

 

I believe this discussion is about perceived value. Some actually like overpaying for services as it provides validation of their wealth. Others scour the world for bargains without regard to the cost of the quest in time and or money. Convenience and maintaining relationships are other reasons for paying whatever it costs. Fact is dealers are there to make money - as much as you let them extract from you.

I change my own oil at 5k intervals. The dealer charges $200 for the 10k interval change

 

You have restored my faith in human nature - thank you - sincerely.

 

Which dealer is that?

 

Porsche of Delaware
Porsche of the Main Line

 

I was there too and I like the dealer very much. That said they told me the least expensive service they could do was $411. I will ask them to clarify next time.
Thanks.

 

Huh?

 

I love the inspections! My tale is that I went to the dealer and then had to go back a week later. The brake lining depths and the tire depths were completely different! I think they just wrote in some random values! I showed the service writer. What a joke.

 

I can give at least one example of the advantages of factory approved dealer vs DIY or indie service.


I had a post warranty timing belt failure on a 1987 944S that required a full top-end re-build in the early 90's.


I sent a letter to the President of Porsche NA detailing the fully documented "by-the-book" maintenance that had been carried out by authorized dealers. This included all specified periodic timing belt tension adjustments, which had to be carried out after the car had been allowed to cool down over-night. In short order, I received a very nice personal reply in which he agreed that Porsche NA would assume all costs of the rebuild.


I doubt that DIY or indie maintenance would have led to the same result.

 

I've had similar experiences from Ford. My 2005 Mustang GT had a transmission failure just three months after the warranty expired. I attached all of my documented dealer visits and services to a letter sent to Ford NA. They kindly paid for 95% of the entire transmission replacement, and extended my warranty for another year.

I agree that some dealers charge an arm and a leg for otherwise cheap services. That said, there comes a time when it all pays off.

 

On your first point - I disagree with where you are headed - but I applaud that you value quality. It seems you are posing that the concept of "bargain" and concept of "quality" are contradictory. I believe thats a false choice.

Let me give you an example. I recently bought a $24,000 sofa. High end store, beautiful well dressed staff offer you champagne when you walk in. Most people wouldn't ask for a discount in a place like that. I did. At first they said they didn't discount at all. After investing a bit in the relationship, and allowing them to consult me on my broader furnishing plan, I convinced them that the price was a barrier for me. And I ended up getting a blanket 30% discount on all purchases there. Not only that - I did it without burning the relationship. Those guys love me and I have bought a lot of stuff there. They told me very few people ask for a discount, but it doesn't offend them - they understand the concept of contribution margin.

The reason I do this is simple - I'm a business person and a shareholder. Now shareholders expect senior executives of a company to procure components at the best price for the engineering requirement. They don't expect them to shortchange the engineering (like GM), but expect them to run a tight procurement process, check prices, open up bidding where prices are high, etc. That is how wealth is created. And you have to run your business that way, because if you waste money, you can't invest it in a better product. Same principle applies to your own purchases - set the quality standard, then get the best price.

On your used car buying preferences - I applaud you. I'm one of those guys who does frequent oil changes ahead of schedule, keeps full records, maintains the car with great care, and sells the car privately. I believe I always get a premium for having a well kept car - so obviously there are guys like you and me for whom quality does matter.

 

FWIW I'm retired Military. For you DIYfers with a military ID card (and this includes any federal workers that have a CAC card to access a military installation ) you can go on the installation and use what's called the AutoCraft Shop. They have lifts, tire changer, engine rooms, machine shops, paint booths all in one building. I usually pay $6.00 an hour for a bay to do my oil changes and other inspections and services on my car. They also have ASE certified mechanics on hand ( usually working on the other side of the building ) in which if you run into a snag they can help you and or pull up your car up on the computer. I have been using this type of facility for over 30+ years all over the world wherever I was stationed. I've rebuild motors, body work and would sometimes just go there to hang out. The last oil change cost me $115.00, I also did a lot of other stuff :-) while I was there. Just putting this out there in case any of you all have access to a military installation. Cheers !

 

I guess.. but I have a really hard time correlating the actions pre-Volkswagen much less the actions of Porsche 20+ years ago. Look at what Nick Murry went through with his Lemon and dealing with them recently.. Even the IMS Bering failures fiasco was denied for years before a design flaw was acknowledged.

 

You make a good point about unacknowledged Porsche design flaws. Even 20+ years ago, my status as a professor of mechanical design with extensive experience in aerospace failure analysis probably helped me to write a convincing letter to Porsche NA regarding the timing belt failure.

The IMS fiasco in particular leaves me unwilling to own an out-of-warranty Porsche. When my present one approaches the end of its four-year warranty, it goes. The unanswered question is to whether or not it will be replaced by another Porsche.

I expect a residual value of approximately 50% of purchase price after four years, for a depreciation cost of around 12 to 13 % per year. Since my resources are not infinite, I will have to decide if I want to continue to drive Porsches, or enjoy other pleasures, extended post-retirement time in France each year, for example, instead.

This is not a new question. After a particularly exasperating series of problems with the 944S, I canceled my order for a 968 replacement and replaced it with a succession of much cheaper and more reliable US V-8, muscle cars, a Camaro, a 6 liter GTO, etc instead. I could do the same again.

If Porsche ownership has a problem, it is problematic long-term reliability and associated very expensive repairs, not the cost of oil changes.

 

A few hundred dollars a year for the dealer to change the oil is well worth it IMHO. You get the dealer stamp/record for your car, as well as good will if you need them to advocate on your behalf with PCNA on a warranty or out-of-waranty repair issue.