do you need to have headers for the stage 4. Also curently running stage 3 and feel that the diffence over stock is substantial. How much different is the next stage. I know that many people lost hp with the different headers. Hey stephen, maybe your next project can be a header test

 

With our 600 HP Stage 4 upgrade the headers are included but not required. There is about 8-10 HP/TQ in the headers. 600 HP with and 590 w/o. The upgrade to our 600 HP stage 4 is $3000 from stage 3. Hope this helps.

 

Headers are part of the package with stage IV. What you will find is the HP goes up slightly, but more importantly the spool times drop a few hundred RPM. Porsche's design on the manifold was pretty good. The headers with IV promote higher velocity which will get the turbos moving faster and reduce lag. Headers in turbo cars should carry the shortest runs possible and not necessarily larger pipes. The larger the diameter and the longer the pipe the harder it is to fill the void with air to create enough pressure to spin the turbo. The larger the pipe the lager the turbo the longer the lag. Think of it this way, a balloon as you start to blow it up becomes taunt, as you now apply larger amounts of air the balloon will expand. To spin a turbo takes the same thing. Or another example is a straw, you blow through it the air is fast and moves objects around, blow through a paper towel roll and the only thing moving is the eyes in your head from hyperventilating. The air has no speed. This is the one key to making a turbo create boost. Headers are part of the package with stage IV. What you will find is the HP goes up slightly, but more importantly the spool times drop a few hundred RPM. Porsche's design on the manifold was pretty good. The headers with IV promote higher velocity which will get the turbos moving faster and reduce lag. As far as the difference in the packages....The difference in HP and TQ is substantial. The car feels much faster at partial then the previous stage at full throttle.


As far as the difference in the packages....The difference in HP and TQ is substantial. The car feels much faster at partial then the previous stage at full throttle.

 

Stage II and IV

 

what is causing the increase in hp-is it just more boost

 

Not at all. Others may do that but everything from the VE table, PW table to timing, TB angle, Knock control and more is adjusted. Adjusting boost only is a no win situation as eventually the inevitable will occur.

 

A bit off topic but has anyone dynoed the TTP or Gemballa headers (I think TTP makes **** for Gemballa!!) - out of curiosity....

 

Stephen you are such a dyno queen lol

Seriously though, that whole headers debate is interesting. So far I've had quite a few so-called and self-proclaimed experts tell me that the stockers are well designed and balanced for our cars (with bolt ons as opposed to total engine, intake etc.. redsign). I'm still wondering why nobody has started selling an "improved" design bsed on the stockers? You know ceramically coated and all...

Anyway 7-8HP for headers is a waste. Just get ground wires for the same HP lol

 

Headers are not a large return of hp for dollars spent. If you add headers you must tune the afr for the headers. In addition, the biggest loss with using headers occurs with the heat loss thru the 16 or 18 gauge metal. Have your headers wrapped with a product like Thermo Tec and then watch your turbo lag drop.

 

Hmm that's a good idea, maybe even worth doing on the stockers? I've got video of my headers glowing red during a night time "ahem" test run. Made my car look as if it had lighted ground effects.

I remember on yours, after running hard at the track you could pretty much touch 'em

 

Keep in mind that header wrap on a street driven car will destroy the headers. 3K miles of use a year is not a problem, but an average 12K a year will destroy them. The Thermo wrap for practical street application is not a good idea. Need pics? Stock headers are double lined.

 

I'll trade ya pics of my center diff if ya like Sure show me those bad boys...

 

I will shoot them in the morning for ya...nasty stuff.

 

Stephen,

I have never see 16 gauge, 316 stainless steel headers destroyed by wrap. I have see mild steel and a few 20 gauge 304 destroyed. These would be inferior products to start with.

 

Once again it depends on the application. Your applications are not practical for the street and when I recommend something it is with longevity in mind. Everything has a cost.