Hi.

Think cost control...and likely being green/blue/white for 2-3 more years at least...no hurries. No need to be as fast as Matt, etc.

Anyway, the bar Dan showed and the GMG bar seem quite nice and perhaps good enough. My driveway will not let me "lower" the car and I am unsure if doing JIC's etc. without lowering is really a big advantage....


Can the rear sway alone get the car more flat in its current SUV state ;-)
and dial out some understeer.

TIA.


JB

(I sent a note to Fabryce and Dan has been super...the issue is what is enough...I assume if I fix my driveway (planned) I can always get the coilovers later....and when I am better....)

 

Rear Sways and Rear toe links are musts, IMHO.

I went with H&R rear bars (bigger dia.) with Tarett drop links.

I also picked up the Tarett lower Rear Toe Control Arm w/Bump Steer

http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-products/list.htm

Next would be GT3 lower (2-piece - shimmed) control arms to get more
front negative camber.

X73 Suspension, again IMHO, is my choice over PSS9's (you only really get
one or two clicks of real PSS9 adjustment), and X73 is very close to GT3 springrates.
(Ask me, I've dyno'd them)

Deetz.

 

JB,
I also went with the H&R rear sway bar and it was a big improvement from the stock set up. I upgraded the car in increments. I took the car, in stock form, to the track to gauge what I thought could be improved on. I first added the rear sway bar, which calmed the understeer, and it helped at the track and did not compromise the daily drive experience. Then I did the JIC set up and I'm happy with it. If I do decide to get very serious with track days then I'd go with a Moton set up.

TK
Chris

 

The simple answer is YES you can do just the sway and no coliovers. Just like leaving out any other suspension part, you will leave out some advantage to handling, but you will gain a considerable advantage over stock.

And yes the JIC will help you even without lowering.

 

Deetz

Nice seeing you posting some of that knowledge of yours!!
Does the X73 not have adjustable camber plates? Cause cant you get all the negative camber you need with them.
I have the JIC set up and run -3.5 in the front with no problem.
I did add rear toe links to help keep the rear in line with the camber plates.

 

remember compared to other stock cars you have a tremendous car. Just do some track events and learn to drive and enjoy what Porsche has already created.
dont compare what guys do on this forum to yourself as must dos.
some of the guys on this forum are elite drivers with cars set up specifically for track battle (and they know who they are!)

enjoy the track, let the upgrades come later. certainly even a set of PSS9's is a tremendous upgrade to stock and changes the car with about as minimal cost as possible. the sway bar will make you feel better I guess!

 

The sway bar only will have you only pulling one side of your hair out over the understeer rather than both sides, facial and pubic hairs in stock form.

 

I did change my front Sway bar in 45 min...I have no idea why folks just change the rear?

 

I agree with Tom Kerr. Right now, the worst part of the track performance of your car is very likely to be the driver. The money you will spend on a sway bar will consume the cost of a weekend at the track. You'll get a lot more from the experience.

That said, I found on my car that changing only the rear bar didn't help all that much. You can't really stiffen the rear enough to flatten it out on cornering without making the car pretty loose. IMO, an inexperienced driver is a lot better off with a car that pushes than one that is loose. If you change both bars, then you have a lot more leeway for tuning.

Do watch out for problems with drop links on the fronts if you go that way. A lot of people have had problems with broken links. I have TRG's, and have had no problems. YMMV.

Jon

 

Thanks guys....sounds like I should just get myself to the track, stock car, cg locks and nice stock seats (instructor gets one...only fair) and perhaps better tires/wheels.



From good people I met, trust, and know are fast as heck...

1. Rear swaybar is good and will help.
2. Rear swaybar is not good, won't help.
3. Just drive and ignore everyone and the tweaks they suggest for a few years.....
4. Don't get R compound tires...no talking out of them....
5. BS, get the R compounds....most important thing you could do.
6. Get PS2's (many).
7. The PCA racing tire guru in DC: not worth getting PS2's over Conti's, just not that much better, but I'll put 245/315 R888's on your car no problems.....
8. Dont' use 245's, 235's max (other tire guru...).
9. Shave R888's!
10. Don't bother shaving them...at your level you'll get more time on them.
11. Etc.


I am telling everyone because from what I saw at VIR, you are all right and are all fast.


So, I called two people...Fabryce at GMG and Mike at CROSS...both board sponsors:


Here are their thoughts:

1. Fabryce: Don't bother with the sway...get the coil-overs/springs first...but if you cannot lower the car until you get your driveway fixed and if you are new, get track wheels and some R track tires and stop there and have fun.

I asked him how people afford racing....$500 for tiny bars, $20,000 for full race suspension, etc. Sort of like the 150$ silk tires I used in the 1980's..on my bikes... Then he told me the old racing joke: Q: "how do you make $1 million in car racing? A: Spend $10 million." He said that... Anyway, he felt R888 would talk enough to me and let me drive to and from the track. As everyone else in the forum and world, super nice guy.

He talked about his GT2, his racing cars...and went back to unless you are ....just get the wheels and tires and have fun... So totally honest it hurt...very nice guy. Very smart. And, very insightful. He felt the sway was the "last" thing you do to the car....not the first....so he was not too keen on selling me a sway set. Also, only should do it in pairs. Felt just the rear would not yield much. I have only seen and heard respect for GMG from people here, so I called him.

2. Mike at CROSS.... Supported using Vivid for their product. Said all coilovers drop the car 10mm at least....Fabryce had agreed.


Plan for the rest of the summer:

1. Find myself some track take offs or wheels (anyone have some cheap...very cheap...Volks or hollows or the like...) and R888's. 18". I have stock brakes. I liked all the black/grey wheels in use by the 6speeders at VIR....

Castrol SRF fluid. It is simply the safest route in my opinion. Worth the tax.

Track brake pads. I have a plan here....

CG locks (I actually really like these...got them at CDOC at VIR...). Use them every day.

Maybe one of those 150 dollar usb video cameras...maybe, just for fun.

And track time!!!!!!!!

And once the conti's die, PS2's for now on as my DD tire, 235/315 of course.

As soon as I fix my driveway, coilovers and sway bars.... The fix is digging up the whole thing and re-pouring....about 8k....quite a few mods lost to that cement....the builder did a very, very bad job.

Thanks guys.

JB

 

If you run a stiff sway on a soft stock suspension, you are apt to break a few end links just FYI

 

You should see what kind of driver you are first. Allow your driving to be the lithmus test. If you can push the car to driving you crazy with understeer, massive body roll etc, then you need to start upgrading.

The stock TT falls short in many areas, but as with many P-cars, is still beyond many people's driving limits even in stock form.

What you NEED from there will depend on how fast you're going, and how in tune you are with the suspension and it's short comings.

 

I agree. The key is to keep the "fun quotient" up there...if it gets in the way, I'll spend money to fix it....until then, it is too much fun."

Thank you. Very well stated. I think Tom K's advice has me pretty much figured out......my only danger is if I turn out to be better than I suspect (per Datax I was improving a lot....). That could get expensive.

 

+1 .