which coilovers to get...
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I have no experience with JIC, but PSS10s should keep her happy. PSS10s are firmer than OEM but smoother, much smoother.
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alot will have to do with the settings and spring rates. for a street ride either will be light years better than stock and I think either would provide a firm yet comfortable ride for street situations.
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My thoughts were" more adjustable = JIC"...so more DE longterm fun and "less likely to replace soon=JIC."
Bilstein enjoys a hugely good reputation for support. JIC is improving. I went with a vendor that will take care of me with the JIC's....to my mind, given the users on this forum that use their cars hard, they are superb. I saw the cars in action at VIR.....
So I went JIC. Couldn't afford anything better and they are better than anything else I could afford. Just my 2c.
I put the whole package together at once: adj control arms, sway bars fr and rear, links front and rear (bigger...adjustable), gt2 corner.... totally different car. Much more control on track and not harsh at all.
But, if you include the corner in the process, it was about 9 hours to install the works....at a good shop with a master mechanic's labor rate... I am sure some on this forum can do this stuff themselves, but if I am going around VIR or such at speed, I want this stuff put on right.
Bilstein enjoys a hugely good reputation for support. JIC is improving. I went with a vendor that will take care of me with the JIC's....to my mind, given the users on this forum that use their cars hard, they are superb. I saw the cars in action at VIR.....
So I went JIC. Couldn't afford anything better and they are better than anything else I could afford. Just my 2c.
I put the whole package together at once: adj control arms, sway bars fr and rear, links front and rear (bigger...adjustable), gt2 corner.... totally different car. Much more control on track and not harsh at all.
But, if you include the corner in the process, it was about 9 hours to install the works....at a good shop with a master mechanic's labor rate... I am sure some on this forum can do this stuff themselves, but if I am going around VIR or such at speed, I want this stuff put on right.
Last edited by jcb-memphis; Jul 12, 2008 at 09:29 PM.
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I absolutely love my JIC's. Huge improvement over OEM. Besides the solid top mounts and camber plates, ride height can be adusted without compressing the springs and thereby changing the the spring rates.
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A ton of information on 6speed. For street PSS is good. Moton Clubsport is one of the best for track but surprisingly good for road use as well (though cost wise potential overkill). I have committed to the Moton Clubsport set up.
So this has been discussed in a number of threads on this board... But I'll post my experiences again...
PSS9s don't have camber plates/pillow mounts... PSS9s are about $1900... Camber plates and Pillow mounts are about $900. Jics have the camber plates/pillow mounts... They're about $2700...
Most of you have seen my video footage of in-car on a couple of tracks... My car does not bottom out, is lower than GT2 ride height, and has no issues described in that "PSS9 problems" thread, which has a TON of useful info BTW!
My car is using H/R adjustable sway bars with Tarred and TRG adjusbale drop links, PSS9s and that's pretty much it... I run them on #1 setting in the rear and #3 setting in the front and I drive this car on trips, as a daily driver and then at the track doing road course stuff. My only issue is camber... I need more for the track and I'm getting ready to fix that... with the help of DAN at Vivid (Yup, gonna work with him on this issue) I'm going to get more camber without having to throw away my PSS9s...
Now, for the average JOE who isn't going to be doing 20 track days per year, PSS9s set up wth 2 degrees negative camber rear and 1.5 negative camber front will do just fine. PSS9s can be dialed in to as soft as you want, and the customer service at Bilstien is legendary. I have sent back shocks to them over the years without issue. They work with you, period. THAT is the only reason I'm keeping my PSS9s.
Before you decide on coil overs, you need to decide on what it is you're going to do with the car. It's that simple. Once you sort that out, you'll be able to start a plan... Do you want to be able to get the most out of a set of Michelin PSC's without killing the outter edges of the tires like I'm doing? Do you want the adjustability of dialing in the total suspension to adjust for Bump steer, camber, caster, toe and ackerman? Do you want to be able to speed up or slow down the travel and stroke of the piston in the shock?
Or do you just want to lower the car so it'll look cooler?
There's a large list of parts that will get your car to do all of the above... Don't listen to those who say YOU MUST DO XYZ, without better explanation. Many are being told this by vendors selling them "stuff". Some of us set our own cars up and turn our own wrenches... If your car starts snapping drop links ( A particular favorite in this thread has been known to do that, so do a search) then buying the heavier duty adjustable drop links is an extra $6000ish.
No matter the brand you choose, make sure you know the intended use for the car. There are a host of spring rates that can effect the ride, as well as the performance of the car... Same with any of these coil overs... Bottom line is you need a plan, then you need to stick with it... and realize that you'll be compromising in one area or another...
Mike
PSS9s don't have camber plates/pillow mounts... PSS9s are about $1900... Camber plates and Pillow mounts are about $900. Jics have the camber plates/pillow mounts... They're about $2700...
Most of you have seen my video footage of in-car on a couple of tracks... My car does not bottom out, is lower than GT2 ride height, and has no issues described in that "PSS9 problems" thread, which has a TON of useful info BTW!
My car is using H/R adjustable sway bars with Tarred and TRG adjusbale drop links, PSS9s and that's pretty much it... I run them on #1 setting in the rear and #3 setting in the front and I drive this car on trips, as a daily driver and then at the track doing road course stuff. My only issue is camber... I need more for the track and I'm getting ready to fix that... with the help of DAN at Vivid (Yup, gonna work with him on this issue) I'm going to get more camber without having to throw away my PSS9s...
Now, for the average JOE who isn't going to be doing 20 track days per year, PSS9s set up wth 2 degrees negative camber rear and 1.5 negative camber front will do just fine. PSS9s can be dialed in to as soft as you want, and the customer service at Bilstien is legendary. I have sent back shocks to them over the years without issue. They work with you, period. THAT is the only reason I'm keeping my PSS9s.
Before you decide on coil overs, you need to decide on what it is you're going to do with the car. It's that simple. Once you sort that out, you'll be able to start a plan... Do you want to be able to get the most out of a set of Michelin PSC's without killing the outter edges of the tires like I'm doing? Do you want the adjustability of dialing in the total suspension to adjust for Bump steer, camber, caster, toe and ackerman? Do you want to be able to speed up or slow down the travel and stroke of the piston in the shock?
Or do you just want to lower the car so it'll look cooler?
There's a large list of parts that will get your car to do all of the above... Don't listen to those who say YOU MUST DO XYZ, without better explanation. Many are being told this by vendors selling them "stuff". Some of us set our own cars up and turn our own wrenches... If your car starts snapping drop links ( A particular favorite in this thread has been known to do that, so do a search) then buying the heavier duty adjustable drop links is an extra $6000ish.
No matter the brand you choose, make sure you know the intended use for the car. There are a host of spring rates that can effect the ride, as well as the performance of the car... Same with any of these coil overs... Bottom line is you need a plan, then you need to stick with it... and realize that you'll be compromising in one area or another...
Mike
Last edited by Mikelly; Jul 13, 2008 at 06:08 AM.
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Resurrecting the dead 
. I don't see much info on H&R coilovers. I have been eyeing them, cause of a great price on TR. The PSS9/10 seems popular, but I hear it only drops the car so much and I want mine to scrape the ground if I want 
. I know I will hear suggestions of more expensive alternatives, but not really an alternative for me. Any guidance?
. I don't see much info on H&R coilovers. I have been eyeing them, cause of a great price on TR. The PSS9/10 seems popular, but I hear it only drops the car so much and I want mine to scrape the ground if I want . I know I will hear suggestions of more expensive alternatives, but not really an alternative for me. Any guidance?
H/Rs are a step DOWN from Bilsteins...
Here's my car with Bilsteins on it:
Low enough? Bisteins alone will not get you there. You will need more camber, and as others have discussed, you'll need to be able to adjust caster out of the setup.
At this point, you really don't want a "deal". As much as I've not been a fan of JICs, I'd buy them or KW Varients unless you plan to do as Oak and others have done and do it all at once. That really is the best solution in getting the car setup properly...I like my PSS9s, but they came on the car. If I were doing it all from scratch, I'd probably go a different route.
Mike
Here's my car with Bilsteins on it:
Low enough? Bisteins alone will not get you there. You will need more camber, and as others have discussed, you'll need to be able to adjust caster out of the setup.
At this point, you really don't want a "deal". As much as I've not been a fan of JICs, I'd buy them or KW Varients unless you plan to do as Oak and others have done and do it all at once. That really is the best solution in getting the car setup properly...I like my PSS9s, but they came on the car. If I were doing it all from scratch, I'd probably go a different route.
Mike
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H/Rs are a step DOWN from Bilsteins...
Here's my car with Bilsteins on it:
Low enough? Bisteins alone will not get you there. You will need more camber, and as others have discussed, you'll need to be able to adjust caster out of the setup.
At this point, you really don't want a "deal". As much as I've not been a fan of JICs, I'd buy them or KW Varients unless you plan to do as Oak and others have done and do it all at once. That really is the best solution in getting the car setup properly...I like my PSS9s, but they came on the car. If I were doing it all from scratch, I'd probably go a different route.
Mike
Here's my car with Bilsteins on it:
Low enough? Bisteins alone will not get you there. You will need more camber, and as others have discussed, you'll need to be able to adjust caster out of the setup.
At this point, you really don't want a "deal". As much as I've not been a fan of JICs, I'd buy them or KW Varients unless you plan to do as Oak and others have done and do it all at once. That really is the best solution in getting the car setup properly...I like my PSS9s, but they came on the car. If I were doing it all from scratch, I'd probably go a different route.
Mike
. Would going the route of 'all at once' cost you more or less than just getting the JICs or KWs?
Every time you bolt a new piece on, you'll have to pay for the labor, alignment, possible corner weighting, depending on the piece... So every time you're going to get hit with that additional labor... Regardless which coil over you go with, I'd recommend getting all the pieces that meet your needs at once, and install them ONCE and be done with it. I've been piece mealing mine together, and it is NOT, repeat N-O-T the way I'd prefer to go on a project like this. You might want to get with one of the vendors, like Dan at Vivid, and see what kind of package price you can get to meet your needs...
Regardless, without the ability to adjust camber, caster and toe to the amounts required for track use, you're not going to be happy, if you plan to track a lot (More than a couple of days per year). It's like Tom said above, it all boils down to where you are at your existing driving level, and where you want to be with your tracking goals.
Mike
Regardless, without the ability to adjust camber, caster and toe to the amounts required for track use, you're not going to be happy, if you plan to track a lot (More than a couple of days per year). It's like Tom said above, it all boils down to where you are at your existing driving level, and where you want to be with your tracking goals.
Mike
Last edited by Mikelly; Sep 9, 2008 at 09:59 AM.
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Every time you bolt a new piece on, you'll have to pay for the labor, alignment, possible corner weighting, depending on the piece... So every time you're going to get hit with that additional labor... Regardless which coil over you go with, I'd recommend getting all the pieces that meet your needs at once, and install them ONCE and be done with it. I've been piece mealing mine together, and it is NOT, repeat N-O-T the way I'd prefer to go on a project like this. You might want to get with one of the vendors, like Dan at Vivid, and see what kind of package price you can get to meet your needs...
Regardless, without the ability to adjust camber, caster and toe to the amounts required for track use, you're not going to be happy, if you plan to track a lot (More than a couple of days per year). It's like Tom said above, it all boils down to where you are at your existing driving level, and where you want to be with your tracking goals.
Mike
Regardless, without the ability to adjust camber, caster and toe to the amounts required for track use, you're not going to be happy, if you plan to track a lot (More than a couple of days per year). It's like Tom said above, it all boils down to where you are at your existing driving level, and where you want to be with your tracking goals.
Mike
I'm partial to the Porsche X73 Euro Sport suspension. Lowers the car about an inch and extremely well balanced from the factory. Obviously it's not adjustable like others, but I havent really wanted to either.
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why are H&Rs a step down form Bilsteins?
i went from JRZs to H&Rs because of NYC streets, but just curious why you say H&Rs are a step down from PSS9/10s?
Jason
i went from JRZs to H&Rs because of NYC streets, but just curious why you say H&Rs are a step down from PSS9/10s?
Jason
H/Rs are a step DOWN from Bilsteins...
Here's my car with Bilsteins on it:
Low enough? Bisteins alone will not get you there. You will need more camber, and as others have discussed, you'll need to be able to adjust caster out of the setup.
At this point, you really don't want a "deal". As much as I've not been a fan of JICs, I'd buy them or KW Varients unless you plan to do as Oak and others have done and do it all at once. That really is the best solution in getting the car setup properly...I like my PSS9s, but they came on the car. If I were doing it all from scratch, I'd probably go a different route.
Mike
Here's my car with Bilsteins on it:
Low enough? Bisteins alone will not get you there. You will need more camber, and as others have discussed, you'll need to be able to adjust caster out of the setup.
At this point, you really don't want a "deal". As much as I've not been a fan of JICs, I'd buy them or KW Varients unless you plan to do as Oak and others have done and do it all at once. That really is the best solution in getting the car setup properly...I like my PSS9s, but they came on the car. If I were doing it all from scratch, I'd probably go a different route.
Mike