Top Gear Tests the Nissan GTR - Stigs time...
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well, we'll have to see how the actual production cars hang. and if you know porsches history it isn't always the fastest that wins, it is the fast and reliable that win. All these cars being tested are not regular production models. I will resserve judgement, but honestly, if you stick that and a ZO6 in front of me, I will pick the ZO6. And lets not even talk viper. I'll take a viper. The ovegrown EVO look just does not do it, not at nearly 80k. People are quick to take it without knowing it's reliability. There has already been documented problems with the gear box. Heavychevy discussed this in the past I think. Who knows maybe 2 years down the road it will have some reliability record and looks will have improved.
Until then, it is just another hot rod and you can make anything fast with enough money, just check this out
:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h8KdtuBBLM
Until then, it is just another hot rod and you can make anything fast with enough money, just check this out
:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h8KdtuBBLM
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In general folks on this forum are not going to be receptive to that thing. It has to be one of the uglier cars ever built. The GT-R looks like a conglomeration of parts and pieces from Nissan's parts bin and various cues from existing sports coupes. The result ends up looking like an especially hideous "modern" sports coupe because there's no binding or unifying styling concept or feel to the look. To me the GT-R does not even look like a sports car. Great that it's quick but it ends up being a horrible looking, gigantic, heavy, grotesque, souless corporate atrocity from Nissan.
As you can tell I am no fan of the GT-R. I'm not impressed that Nissan can throw a fast car at our shores--when the Skyline GT-R has been in development and available in Japan for years. People talk about the GT-R as though it's some miracle pulled out of thin air when that's far from the case--it's just become available. As always folks want what they can't get.
I give no real Kudos to the GT-R even from the perspective of being a bargain--we have to wait and see what maintaining the thing is about, and since it's no great head turner what will depreciation and resale be like? True competition does not hurt and if history is any indicator the GT-R will get utterly spanked when Nissan goes to play in various racing series head to head with Porsche.
GT-Rs have left me feeling ice cold from my first glimpse and my mod'ed Turbo can stomp them anyway. Porsches inspire passion in me and always will.
As you can tell I am no fan of the GT-R. I'm not impressed that Nissan can throw a fast car at our shores--when the Skyline GT-R has been in development and available in Japan for years. People talk about the GT-R as though it's some miracle pulled out of thin air when that's far from the case--it's just become available. As always folks want what they can't get.
I give no real Kudos to the GT-R even from the perspective of being a bargain--we have to wait and see what maintaining the thing is about, and since it's no great head turner what will depreciation and resale be like? True competition does not hurt and if history is any indicator the GT-R will get utterly spanked when Nissan goes to play in various racing series head to head with Porsche.
GT-Rs have left me feeling ice cold from my first glimpse and my mod'ed Turbo can stomp them anyway. Porsches inspire passion in me and always will.
...even around a track?
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If it really is $6k for a brake job....that would do it for me as a "no."....my wife would shoot me too....honey, brakes needed to be fixed....how much.....BOOM.
I suspect that is an exaggeration....I sure hope so. But, these cars come with a dealer tax....they have to make up their costs....
http://www.nissangtrproto.com/2007/n...-the-r35-gt-r/
JB
I suspect that is an exaggeration....I sure hope so. But, these cars come with a dealer tax....they have to make up their costs....
http://www.nissangtrproto.com/2007/n...-the-r35-gt-r/
JB
Last edited by jcb-memphis; Jul 21, 2008 at 06:08 AM.
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In 1990 I had delivered the 1st road registered RB32 GTR into Australia, I owned the car for 5 years and did 60K miles in it. At the time I was a registered Porsche car club member and took great delight in the way the GTR hosed all and sundry at the various hill climbs, road circuits, Australian Grand Prix rallies etc. The car was an absolute weapon, incredibly easy to drive and I had zero reliability problems with it, 3 other members of my local PCA went on to buy GTR's and they were also astounded at the cars ability. When a got my TT back in 2006 I was surprised at how agricultural the car feels in some areas in comparision to my recollection of my GTR, the 4WD drive system, gearbox, handling etc.
Without doubt the TT is a better looking car than the new GTR but until you drive a GTR I would hold off bagging the speed of the car or throwing reliability aspersions at it. If I was looking for a really fast road/track car I would sell my TT and buy a new GTR in a heartbeat. The TT looks the business but from a performance point of view I'm sure it isn't in the same ball park..........
Without doubt the TT is a better looking car than the new GTR but until you drive a GTR I would hold off bagging the speed of the car or throwing reliability aspersions at it. If I was looking for a really fast road/track car I would sell my TT and buy a new GTR in a heartbeat. The TT looks the business but from a performance point of view I'm sure it isn't in the same ball park..........
If you're comparing stock to stock, I would agree that the GT-R would apparenty be the better performer at this point. However, Having been in the Nissan family for 2 decades, I'll say this: Their reputation for low reliability ratings is well published. They are no "honda" or "toyota".
Mike
Mike
In 1990 I had delivered the 1st road registered RB32 GTR into Australia, I owned the car for 5 years and did 60K miles in it. At the time I was a registered Porsche car club member and took great delight in the way the GTR hosed all and sundry at the various hill climbs, road circuits, Australian Grand Prix rallies etc. The car was an absolute weapon, incredibly easy to drive and I had zero reliability problems with it, 3 other members of my local PCA went on to buy GTR's and they were also astounded at the cars ability. When a got my TT back in 2006 I was surprised at how agricultural the car feels in some areas in comparision to my recollection of my GTR, the 4WD drive system, gearbox, handling etc.
Without doubt the TT is a better looking car than the new GTR but until you drive a GTR I would hold off bagging the speed of the car or throwing reliability aspersions at it. If I was looking for a really fast road/track car I would sell my TT and buy a new GTR in a heartbeat. The TT looks the business but from a performance point of view I'm sure it isn't in the same ball park..........
Without doubt the TT is a better looking car than the new GTR but until you drive a GTR I would hold off bagging the speed of the car or throwing reliability aspersions at it. If I was looking for a really fast road/track car I would sell my TT and buy a new GTR in a heartbeat. The TT looks the business but from a performance point of view I'm sure it isn't in the same ball park..........
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If you're comparing stock to stock, I would agree that the GT-R would apparenty be the better performer at this point. However, Having been in the Nissan family for 2 decades, I'll say this: Their reputation for low reliability ratings is well published. They are no "honda" or "toyota".
Mike
Mike
Lookswise, it really is down to personal opinion.
For me respect where respect is due. Nissan have done an incredible job on the car. Looks are subjective but when I had one next to my 996tt I must say my TT looked subdued and even slightly dated. In terms of aging, the 996tt will definitely stand the test of time better.
But the GTR really is an amazing car. If I had the money I would definitely buy one to put beside my 996tt. But for now, like many on this forum I cant bring myself to part with my 996tt just yet...
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In 1990 I had delivered the 1st road registered RB32 GTR into Australia, I owned the car for 5 years and did 60K miles in it. At the time I was a registered Porsche car club member and took great delight in the way the GTR hosed all and sundry at the various hill climbs, road circuits, Australian Grand Prix rallies etc. The car was an absolute weapon, incredibly easy to drive and I had zero reliability problems with it, 3 other members of my local PCA went on to buy GTR's and they were also astounded at the cars ability. When a got my TT back in 2006 I was surprised at how agricultural the car feels in some areas in comparision to my recollection of my GTR, the 4WD drive system, gearbox, handling etc.
Without doubt the TT is a better looking car than the new GTR but until you drive a GTR I would hold off bagging the speed of the car or throwing reliability aspersions at it. If I was looking for a really fast road/track car I would sell my TT and buy a new GTR in a heartbeat. The TT looks the business but from a performance point of view I'm sure it isn't in the same ball park..........
Without doubt the TT is a better looking car than the new GTR but until you drive a GTR I would hold off bagging the speed of the car or throwing reliability aspersions at it. If I was looking for a really fast road/track car I would sell my TT and buy a new GTR in a heartbeat. The TT looks the business but from a performance point of view I'm sure it isn't in the same ball park..........
Guys, You can't beat physics. As we've seen with the 996TT, the weight and more importantly PMI reak havoc on these heavier platforms. You think modding a GT-R will make it less prone to failure? The tuners are having problems cracking the code for software and hardware upgrades. I can't imagine when these cars hit regular road courses how many more problem areas will creap up. It's a 3900# car and there will be BIG problems with dependability at those levels.
There was a 2007 M5 at the last CHIN event I was at. That car is well over 4000# in stock trim. This particular car was gutted and had a roll cage in it. It was fast as hell when it was on the track... When it was on the track. He had lots of issues (and I heard he always does) and he spent more time with the car in the garage on jackstands than on course... The GT-R will suffer a similar fate.
Uh, No thanks.
Mike
There was a 2007 M5 at the last CHIN event I was at. That car is well over 4000# in stock trim. This particular car was gutted and had a roll cage in it. It was fast as hell when it was on the track... When it was on the track. He had lots of issues (and I heard he always does) and he spent more time with the car in the garage on jackstands than on course... The GT-R will suffer a similar fate.
Uh, No thanks.
Mike
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I am not as much worried about the weight as the gimmicks.....the electronics on many if not all new cars will make them more of a computer issue than a hardware issue....already this is killing the "indy" shop. Nissan won't let you get work done anywhere but a gtr dealer....even they realize it is a complex car, or their "normal, excellent" 350z guys could handle it....
And, Mike is probably right. It is heavy. I suspect if the GPS can lock/unlock the speed limitter, that the ecu code is pretty darn locked down from tuners......or they know you have messed because that is relayed to the central computer instantly...voiding the warranty, etc.
I care about my warranty...if I did not, no big deal....just seems to be a very tight box.
If the tranny on this (and the PDK too) is barely rated above the stock output, that immediately limits things....
If I could sell my car for 75 and walk into one of these for 75, no cost at all, I might do it if I liked how it drove and looked first hand. Might.
JB
And, Mike is probably right. It is heavy. I suspect if the GPS can lock/unlock the speed limitter, that the ecu code is pretty darn locked down from tuners......or they know you have messed because that is relayed to the central computer instantly...voiding the warranty, etc.
I care about my warranty...if I did not, no big deal....just seems to be a very tight box.
If the tranny on this (and the PDK too) is barely rated above the stock output, that immediately limits things....
If I could sell my car for 75 and walk into one of these for 75, no cost at all, I might do it if I liked how it drove and looked first hand. Might.
JB
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Uh, No, Because you've been pretty rude about it... "GTR bashing Trolls" is what did me in...
When is your GTR coming in? Are you buying one? I mean, Really...
Let me put it like this... I wasn't a big Porsche fan, ever. I have a good friend who bought a GT3, and let me drive it... My "curiosity got the best of me..."
Two years later I'm in a position to buy a "GREAT" car that has real curb appeal. The cars on my short list were the Z06, the Viper and "possibly" a GT2. I fell into the Turbo by accident. I now "AM" a porsche fan, hook line and sinker.
See what kills it for so many of us is when some tool makes passionate comments about a vehicle they don't own, haven't enjoyed, or experienced... That is a "fan boy" and a "troll"... We saw it back when the "fast and the furious" kids were trolling the streets, believing the hype of that movie, and giving us all something to laugh at.
So tell us, when did you take delivery of your GT-R?
Mike
When is your GTR coming in? Are you buying one? I mean, Really...
Let me put it like this... I wasn't a big Porsche fan, ever. I have a good friend who bought a GT3, and let me drive it... My "curiosity got the best of me..."
Two years later I'm in a position to buy a "GREAT" car that has real curb appeal. The cars on my short list were the Z06, the Viper and "possibly" a GT2. I fell into the Turbo by accident. I now "AM" a porsche fan, hook line and sinker.
See what kills it for so many of us is when some tool makes passionate comments about a vehicle they don't own, haven't enjoyed, or experienced... That is a "fan boy" and a "troll"... We saw it back when the "fast and the furious" kids were trolling the streets, believing the hype of that movie, and giving us all something to laugh at.
So tell us, when did you take delivery of your GT-R?
Mike
Same can be said about everyone bashing on the GT-R... do any of them own one? I don't think so. It goes both ways buddy.
I think you miss the point, "buddy".
We're so passionate about the 996/997TT nd GT2 because we "OWN" them and have "Experienced" them... Some of us even "Drive" them in a controlled environement where we can truly "appreciate them" for what they're meant to be. They're not some fantasy of some dreamer who wants to throw out every positive comment about the car just to see people react in the predictable ways...
Admit it, you'd be so deflated if we all swarmed to these posts and raved about how wonderful the GT-R is and how great it does everything...
It's a fast, stylish (to some), car with impressive numbers... Let's see one get abused for a season of HPDE on a road course... Let's watch all its warts come to the surface, or not. Time will tell, but again, those of us defending our "porsches" do so from the stance of experience, not daydreams.
Mike
We're so passionate about the 996/997TT nd GT2 because we "OWN" them and have "Experienced" them... Some of us even "Drive" them in a controlled environement where we can truly "appreciate them" for what they're meant to be. They're not some fantasy of some dreamer who wants to throw out every positive comment about the car just to see people react in the predictable ways...
Admit it, you'd be so deflated if we all swarmed to these posts and raved about how wonderful the GT-R is and how great it does everything...
It's a fast, stylish (to some), car with impressive numbers... Let's see one get abused for a season of HPDE on a road course... Let's watch all its warts come to the surface, or not. Time will tell, but again, those of us defending our "porsches" do so from the stance of experience, not daydreams.
Mike
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NOTE: I OWN BOTH CARS, 99TTS and GT-R. I am a fan boy for neither.
Here are my thoughts:
Both cars are fast.
Both cars have pros and cons.
996TTS is a drivers car. It is a physical driving experience and you need skill to make that car run as it has been engineered to do. The car gives you feed back and is a harsher drive. Do I love the car? Absolutely, this car will be in my arsenal until I can no longer drive. (My P-Car is modified and it ain't no sissy.) Over 120 mph, this car walks the GT-R (that is if the GT-R hasn't disappeared over the horizon.)
The GT-R is a friggin rocket. I do not feel the sensation of speed. It is a disconnected driving experience. Everything that has been written about this car is true; in fact, it is a car made for driving dummies. It makes up for one's driving inexperience. Off the line through 120 mph, this car hauls ***. I find the car to be so so in looks. I can't say I would keep this car.
As an owner of both, my nod goes to the 996TTS, but not by much.
For all those who want to bash the GT-R, my suggestion is that you actually get in the seat and take a drive. It is awesome. So, let's not debate based on speculation; for those who actually hate the car, get in the seat before you utter the first word of criticism. It may not convert you to the dark force, but it will give you respect for what the car is -- a monster, specifically, Godzilla.
Here are my thoughts:
Both cars are fast.
Both cars have pros and cons.
996TTS is a drivers car. It is a physical driving experience and you need skill to make that car run as it has been engineered to do. The car gives you feed back and is a harsher drive. Do I love the car? Absolutely, this car will be in my arsenal until I can no longer drive. (My P-Car is modified and it ain't no sissy.) Over 120 mph, this car walks the GT-R (that is if the GT-R hasn't disappeared over the horizon.)
The GT-R is a friggin rocket. I do not feel the sensation of speed. It is a disconnected driving experience. Everything that has been written about this car is true; in fact, it is a car made for driving dummies. It makes up for one's driving inexperience. Off the line through 120 mph, this car hauls ***. I find the car to be so so in looks. I can't say I would keep this car.
As an owner of both, my nod goes to the 996TTS, but not by much.
For all those who want to bash the GT-R, my suggestion is that you actually get in the seat and take a drive. It is awesome. So, let's not debate based on speculation; for those who actually hate the car, get in the seat before you utter the first word of criticism. It may not convert you to the dark force, but it will give you respect for what the car is -- a monster, specifically, Godzilla.
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Great info Orlando...I feel as do alot of my fellow car nutzzz that the pre-production GT-R's for most of the earlier testing were 'ringers'. Plain and simple...look at the overall performance numbers now, with production vehicles in the hands of the mags and owners. It looks to be one cool *** car with great performance and alot of interesting features but as you've mentioned it does seem to take away from the driving experience that is shared in P-cars and several others that come to mind. When its all said and done I really don't think they can run with a competent driver in a 996TT, GT2 or Z06 for that matter...
Last edited by DJ'sZ; Jul 21, 2008 at 12:46 PM.
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NOTE: I OWN BOTH CARS, 99TTS and GT-R. I am a fan boy for neither.
Here are my thoughts:
Both cars are fast.
Both cars have pros and cons.
996TTS is a drivers car. It is a physical driving experience and you need skill to make that car run as it has been engineered to do. The car gives you feed back and is a harsher drive. Do I love the car? Absolutely, this car will be in my arsenal until I can no longer drive. (My P-Car is modified and it ain't no sissy.) Over 120 mph, this car walks the GT-R (that is if the GT-R hasn't disappeared over the horizon.)
The GT-R is a friggin rocket. I do not feel the sensation of speed. It is a disconnected driving experience. Everything that has been written about this car is true; in fact, it is a car made for driving dummies. It makes up for one's driving inexperience. Off the line through 120 mph, this car hauls ***. I find the car to be so so in looks. I can't say I would keep this car.
As an owner of both, my nod goes to the 996TTS, but not by much.
For all those who want to bash the GT-R, my suggestion is that you actually get in the seat and take a drive. It is awesome. So, let's not debate based on speculation; for those who actually hate the car, get in the seat before you utter the first word of criticism. It may not convert you to the dark force, but it will give you respect for what the car is -- a monster, specifically, Godzilla.
Here are my thoughts:
Both cars are fast.
Both cars have pros and cons.
996TTS is a drivers car. It is a physical driving experience and you need skill to make that car run as it has been engineered to do. The car gives you feed back and is a harsher drive. Do I love the car? Absolutely, this car will be in my arsenal until I can no longer drive. (My P-Car is modified and it ain't no sissy.) Over 120 mph, this car walks the GT-R (that is if the GT-R hasn't disappeared over the horizon.)
The GT-R is a friggin rocket. I do not feel the sensation of speed. It is a disconnected driving experience. Everything that has been written about this car is true; in fact, it is a car made for driving dummies. It makes up for one's driving inexperience. Off the line through 120 mph, this car hauls ***. I find the car to be so so in looks. I can't say I would keep this car.
As an owner of both, my nod goes to the 996TTS, but not by much.
For all those who want to bash the GT-R, my suggestion is that you actually get in the seat and take a drive. It is awesome. So, let's not debate based on speculation; for those who actually hate the car, get in the seat before you utter the first word of criticism. It may not convert you to the dark force, but it will give you respect for what the car is -- a monster, specifically, Godzilla.
I have been lurking for a while, but I just had to comment on this because I find it sort of funny. On the one hand you say it is awesome, but you started off by confirming all the reasons not to like it and that is why I have little interest in the car as a driving enthusiast despite its engineering prowess.
And yes, I drove one back in February and it was probably one of "those ringers" so it was even "teh fastAr"
I suppose if you are the type to measurebate over magazine tests numbers it is fine, but I have driven cars that are much slower that are much more fun to drive
