So,

I considered doing a lot of DE in the coming year.

Track is wonderful as long as you stay humble.

Then I started into the plans to "improve" the car....harnesses, etc. Seats. DAS bars. BK stuff. It goes on and on. I had hints of humor/truth. Fabryce at GMG asked me if I knew how to make a million dollars racing? I said win a lot. He said sure, but the real answer is to spend 10 million. :-)

I estimate that a reasonable weekend of DE costs a person at least 1000 dollars in gas/tires/wear/hotel/entry...more if you get the proper insurance for it, perhaps 1500 then. Do 10 weekends a year....15k. That is not chump change. I am perhaps half of what others do....a guy with a GT3, financial planner, worked out DE cost him 3k/weekend.

Eventually one brave person posted a reply to me in a seat choice thread in the DE section on rennlist. Here it is:

JCB-
here is my $0.04 worth (inflation). There are many well-informed racers on this forum. I have always enjoyed reading their opinions. I started DE'ing with my 500HP 996TT. Started with no track mods (other than intake/chip/exhaust), it was painful being passed by a whole bunch of cars. The TT is heavy and tends to "push" in corners. I paid my dues with PCA/BMW/Audi/NASA DE groups. Had alot of good instruction (some bad) along the way. Moved up to the higher run groups. The first thing I did is install PSS9's, then upgraded brakes, added rollbar/6 point harness, fire supression. As the car became more track-worthy, it was now less streetable. I learned that there is no true dual purpose car. I was greatly compromising safety with stock seats and no full cage. I was running in the high run groups at much higher speeds. I was running street tires (based on sound advise from instructors) and hated to tangle with the ZO6's, Vipers and GT3, ALL on slicks. I didn't have the resources, ability, or desire to get a full race car. I also didn't have the financial means to "walk away" from a totaled $80K car. The insurance issue, the liabiliy on-track made me finally give up on this hobby and sell my TT. When I get back into tracking, it will be with a low HP (ofcourse most cars would be low HP compared to my TT) track-only car. With all safety features. I do not ever want to "compromise" with my life.

So, unless you are willing to do what Tom Kerr and Mikelly (and others) have done, make the TT a full track car....the above person is pretty much where I am at this point: except I love the car too much to sell. So, I plan to enjoy the heck out of it on the street. I don't street race. Never have. Not something I have in me to do. I don't abuse it. I plan to find fun roads to drive on and leave the car alone.

I have a ton more money to use now that I don't plan to get 3-4 sets of tires a season, seats, two 6 points, etc. And the DE fees and hotels (and 100 octane) gas does add up over time.

I plan to take a forced time off for a long time. If I go back, I plan to buy a pure track car...maybe a 73 rs replica built off an SC. Maybe. I love those. Way less HP than our TT's, but nimble and air cooled aromas you cannot beat. These TT's are amazing...they are perhaps too much car for DE if you will....

Thumbs up to everyone who does DE.

Jeff

 

Jeff, not sure why you cant just put some R888's on the car, drive it on the street and enjoy it all you want. and do as many DE's as you want. I dont think it will cost near what you predict.
become an instructor and the weekends are near free.
BTW drove my car to work every day this week!!!

Drive the car as much as you can and do as many DE's as you can. stop over thinking everything. there are plenty of "regular" DE participants that year after year drive their street car. the only change is a set of worthy tires the rest for a "DE" is just icing on the cake.

 

I guess the question is what are your goals in doing HPDE? For the average beginner or intermediate driver, other than your brakes, do you really need much more? You can always go on the cheap for a "race seat/harness bar/harnesses and swap them in each weekend...

We just sat down this week and discussed this issue in my household. What my costs are per 3-day weekend:

$400 in fuel for Diesel and Gasoline.
$350-400 for lodging.
$200 for fluids/filters for track prep.
Fees for each club vary from $250 (PCA Potomac 2 day at summit) to Chin Motorsports ($550 at VIR)

Per season:
2 sets (minimum) of new tires - $2800
2 sets front pads - $700
1 set rear pads - $280
1 Set front rotors - $350

Not to mention any other issues that may come up when pushing these cars in stock form. My goal has always been to keep the car as "streetable" as possible, because I haven't committed to the level of track prep that Tom currently is at... My car still has all the bells and whistles, but has the seats (which came in it) and the roll bar.

Here's the "other" reality in HPDE and drivers events... To go out and have fun, it doesn't cost a ton. But if you want to log the "times" some are shooting for, and get to be one of the "faster" guys in any of the groups out there, seat time has no replacement. There's a Reason why guys like LVDell and Jim McNemar over on rennlist are running 2:03s in GT3 street cars making only 375WHP... Seattime... The draw, for me, to the 996TT is because you can modd the car to a level (Like Tom has) to be able to chase down average drivers in Cupcars. You won't have the maintenance and R&R issues the cupcars have as long as you do the precautionary mods like the tranny oil cooler and other upgrades...

Jeff, It's all about personal situations. I just won an award for GSA Schedule contracts, which means I'm going to be VERY busy thru-out the fall and winter this year. Reality is I may not have the time next year to track my car and if I can't track it, I'll remove the seats/bar and buy some stockers to install and have it as a street car until time allows for me to make the full switch into the conversion Tom has done on his...

Just make sure you're prepared when you make the choice to do a full track car. It means buying a truck and trailer, and storing the trailer (theft liability issues come to mind), and also means you give up being able to enjoy the car on the street... Although it sounds "cheaper", it actually can be more expensive... My truck/trailer combo cost me about $45K...

Mike

 

Buy my 996 b stock car...Ill practically give it to you...

 

My GT2 and M3 have each been on a road course for 6 sessions a piece.

4 sessions (w/out a mishap god forbid) in the GT2 knocks about 1K in value off the car. A friend lost 30K in one accident. I did DE's to become a better driver on the street and always translate the skills I learned on the track (I did a lot of studying prior to getting out there). I have my favorite local street areas were I, if there is no traffic, drive the lines. My time on the road course also taught me to break lot of bad habits one pics up from daily driving on the streets.

However, IMO, regularly tracking a modded Porsche, even a less expensive TT is a great hobby for someone who is moderately wealthy (IE net worth over 3 million and yearly take home income of over 100K min w/ no family).

If I were to be a true track junkie I would get a dedicated track car, probably build one from an American motor, get an E36 M3 or even a Miata and only take the GT2 out once a year to see what i could do.

Right now I am looking into a really fast and challenging go cart track (don't laugh) and transferring the skills to the street.

 

DE days are addictive. The more you do it the more you want to be competitive. Bigger brakes, better suspension, safety equipment. It is a slippery slope much like modding your car. First you do a couple little things and before you know it you have done a bunch and spent some serious coin doing so. The other problem is your street car quickly becomes more of a track car.

If you want to get into more the DE days and do some club racing - you can spend anywhere from $1k per weekend doing spec racers all the way up to $20k doing Cup cars. I think you can have fun regardless of your net worth - you just have to be reasonable.

Dr Jitsu - Practice up at TWS - I am coming for you in March.

 

I totally agree, for DEs these cars are perfect stone cold stock. The performance envelope on these cars out of the factory is far above the ability of most casual DE drivers, myself included. Just get a dedicated set of track tires and bleed your brakes regularly and that's all you need.

 

that's a nice offer!!!

 

Have you considered autocross?

If you want competitive, wheel-to-wheel racing action, without breaking the bank, you should look into karting.

 

Thanks guys.


Been a lousy 3 weeks. 2nd gear pop-out. Car is in Dougherty's (great guys). Some syncros are in California. Some in Georgia.... Rebuilding the whole thing...1-6.


The 1991 Volvo 240 loaner, while solid and with great A/C, is just not the same. I can say this. I have fixed every "normal' think in a 996TT and spared no expense doing so. The car is probably better now than when new.




:-)

 

make it simpler, have only one set of wheels with full tread R888's and drive the car normally and do DE's when you want. nuff said.
oh yeah, 245,315's for stock wheels.

 

I'd rather watch paint dry.

Mike

 

The last DE event I did (still a novice - blue group) I lined up next to a tacky looking Miata in the staging area.. Chatting to the guy, he paid $500 for the car and another $500 on minor mechanical work and new tyres. He then proceeded to have a blast over the weekend, as I did too of course. When it was over, I thought about the relative enjoyment/cost/risk of our situations and am now seriously thinking about sourcing a decent Miata or similar car for the track and continue enjoying the Turbo on a daily basis, maybe once in a while tracking it..

By the way, this last event I had R888's on (stock sizes) and better brake pads/fluid. Made a night and day improvement..

 

Really?

I find karting fun, not much different than autocrossing a Miata or stock motor M3.

Ideally I prefer to get the Big dog out there (especially TWS where I can stretch her 600 rwhp) but karting is great bang for the buck.

 

My comment was more towards the whole "autoX" thing. I was a regional champ atoXing back in the mid 90s here on the east coast and all I can say is once you do a lot of DEing, it's hard to go back...

I've done the karting thing and it is fun... But you can buy and race a spec miata for about the same price as competitive karting.

Mike