Anyone wonder why Porsche doesn't participate in the F1?
#16
04-19-2009, 04:13 PM
2003 figures, check this out, the costs are staggering!
Browse > Home / F1 / The Price of Formula 1
The Price of Formula 1
Written by Josh Katinger · February 28, 2004
I was having a conversation over drinks with some friends the other night and we got on the subject of F1 budgets. We were wondering how many NEXTEL Cup cars could be run on an F1 budget. Coincidentally I received the info below in an email a day or so later. Mind you, they are 2003 estimates, but I think they are fascinating none the less. If the estimates that Roush was asking anywhere from $12-$15 million to sponsor Jeff Burton's #99 ride, then I guess you could run about 30 NEXTEL Cup cars for a year on Ferrari's budget alone…
F1 Magazine 2003 budgets (Keep in mind these are 2003 figures) F1 Magazine ran an article in March 2003 in which they admitted that no accurate figures were available due to the secretive nature of the business. However, they said that they had 「nagged and cajoled dozens of key team personnel to reveal the odd titbit, after which [they] cross-checked and analysed [their] findings, then pieced together what [they] believe is the most comprehensive, definitive and accurate guide to F1 costs ever published」. The results are further broken out into 10 spending categories:
Total $2,141,100,000
$443,800,000 Ferrari
$353,300,000 Williams
$304,600,000 McLaren
$290,400,000 Toyota
$225,100,000 BAR
$206,800,000 Renault
$119,500,000 Sauber
$ 79,200,000 Jordan
$ 78,800,000 Jaguar
$ 39,600,000 Minardi
Engine budgets $931,000,000
$185,000,000 Williams
$175,000,000 Ferrari
$150,000,000 Toyota
$140,000,000 McLaren
$110,000,000 Renault
$105,000,000 BAR
$ 24,000,000 Sauber
$ 18,000,000 Jordan
$ 15,000,000 Minardi
$ 9,000,000 Jaguar
Operating the cars at tests $260,800,000
$88,000,000 Ferrari
$48,000,000 Williams
$29,100,000 McLaren
$24,700,000 Toyota
$22,000,000 BAR
$19,800,000 Sauber
$14,600,000 Renault
$ 7,500,000 Jaguar
$ 3,700,000 Jordan
$ 3,400,000 Minardi
Team salaries $194,000,000
$41,400,000 Ferrari
$32,300,000 Toyota
$30,300,000 McLaren
$24,000,000 Williams
$16,500,000 Renault
$12,800,000 BAR
$12,700,000 Sauber
$10,600,000 Jaguar
$ 8,800,000 Jordan
$ 5,300,000 Minardi
Operating the cars at races $187,300,000
$28,500,000 Ferrari
$22,500,000 Toyota
$20,800,000 Williams
$19,200,000 McLaren
$19,000,000 Renault
$18,200,000 Sauber
$17,600,000 BAR
$17,000,000 Jaguar
$16,000,000 Jordan
$ 8,500,000 Minardi
Research and development $173,000,000
$35,000,000 McLaren
$21,500,000 Toyota
$20,300,000 Williams
$20,000,000 Ferrari
$16,900,000 Renault
$16,500,000 BAR
$15,400,000 Jaguar
$14,600,000 Sauber
$12,600,000 Jordan
$ 200,000 Minardi
Driver salaries $132,000,000
$44,000,000 Ferrari
$24,000,000 BAR
$20,000,000 Williams
$13,500,000 McLaren
$ 8,000,000 Jordan
$ 7,500,000 Toyota
$ 6,800,000 Sauber
$ 6,200,000 Renault
$ 1,500,000 Jaguar
$ 500,000 Minardi
Wind tunnel operating costs $93,600,000
$15,100,000 Ferrari
$12,900,000 McLaren
$12,200,000 Williams
$11,600,000 Toyota
$10,400,000 Sauber
$10,100,000 BAR
$ 8,000,000 Renault
$ 5,500,000 Jaguar
$ 4,500,000 Jordan
$ 3,300,000 Minardi
Travel and accommodation $86,600,000
$18,000,000 Ferrari
$13,000,000 McLaren
$12,000,000 Toyota
$ 9,300,000 Williams
$ 7,900,000 BAR
$ 7,500,000 Renault
$ 6,800,000 Sauber
$ 5,300,000 Jaguar
$ 4,500,000 Jordan
$ 2,300,000 Minardi
Corporate entertaining and catering $62,850,000
$12,200,000 Williams
$ 9,700,000 Ferrari
$ 8,900,000 McLaren
$ 7,200,000 BAR
$ 6,700,000 Renault
$ 6,300,000 Toyota
$ 5,600,000 Jaguar
$ 4,300,000 Sauber
$ 1,600,000 Jordan
$ 350,000 Minardi
Car manufacturing costs $19,250,000
$4,100,000 Ferrari
$2,700,000 McLaren
$2,000,000 Toyota
$2,000,000 BAR
$1,900,000 Sauber
$1,500,000 Jordan
$1,500,000 Williams
$1,400,000 Renault
$1,400,000 Jaguar
$ 750,000 Minardi
Browse > Home / F1 / The Price of Formula 1
The Price of Formula 1
Written by Josh Katinger · February 28, 2004
I was having a conversation over drinks with some friends the other night and we got on the subject of F1 budgets. We were wondering how many NEXTEL Cup cars could be run on an F1 budget. Coincidentally I received the info below in an email a day or so later. Mind you, they are 2003 estimates, but I think they are fascinating none the less. If the estimates that Roush was asking anywhere from $12-$15 million to sponsor Jeff Burton's #99 ride, then I guess you could run about 30 NEXTEL Cup cars for a year on Ferrari's budget alone…
F1 Magazine 2003 budgets (Keep in mind these are 2003 figures) F1 Magazine ran an article in March 2003 in which they admitted that no accurate figures were available due to the secretive nature of the business. However, they said that they had 「nagged and cajoled dozens of key team personnel to reveal the odd titbit, after which [they] cross-checked and analysed [their] findings, then pieced together what [they] believe is the most comprehensive, definitive and accurate guide to F1 costs ever published」. The results are further broken out into 10 spending categories:
Total $2,141,100,000
$443,800,000 Ferrari
$353,300,000 Williams
$304,600,000 McLaren
$290,400,000 Toyota
$225,100,000 BAR
$206,800,000 Renault
$119,500,000 Sauber
$ 79,200,000 Jordan
$ 78,800,000 Jaguar
$ 39,600,000 Minardi
Engine budgets $931,000,000
$185,000,000 Williams
$175,000,000 Ferrari
$150,000,000 Toyota
$140,000,000 McLaren
$110,000,000 Renault
$105,000,000 BAR
$ 24,000,000 Sauber
$ 18,000,000 Jordan
$ 15,000,000 Minardi
$ 9,000,000 Jaguar
Operating the cars at tests $260,800,000
$88,000,000 Ferrari
$48,000,000 Williams
$29,100,000 McLaren
$24,700,000 Toyota
$22,000,000 BAR
$19,800,000 Sauber
$14,600,000 Renault
$ 7,500,000 Jaguar
$ 3,700,000 Jordan
$ 3,400,000 Minardi
Team salaries $194,000,000
$41,400,000 Ferrari
$32,300,000 Toyota
$30,300,000 McLaren
$24,000,000 Williams
$16,500,000 Renault
$12,800,000 BAR
$12,700,000 Sauber
$10,600,000 Jaguar
$ 8,800,000 Jordan
$ 5,300,000 Minardi
Operating the cars at races $187,300,000
$28,500,000 Ferrari
$22,500,000 Toyota
$20,800,000 Williams
$19,200,000 McLaren
$19,000,000 Renault
$18,200,000 Sauber
$17,600,000 BAR
$17,000,000 Jaguar
$16,000,000 Jordan
$ 8,500,000 Minardi
Research and development $173,000,000
$35,000,000 McLaren
$21,500,000 Toyota
$20,300,000 Williams
$20,000,000 Ferrari
$16,900,000 Renault
$16,500,000 BAR
$15,400,000 Jaguar
$14,600,000 Sauber
$12,600,000 Jordan
$ 200,000 Minardi
Driver salaries $132,000,000
$44,000,000 Ferrari
$24,000,000 BAR
$20,000,000 Williams
$13,500,000 McLaren
$ 8,000,000 Jordan
$ 7,500,000 Toyota
$ 6,800,000 Sauber
$ 6,200,000 Renault
$ 1,500,000 Jaguar
$ 500,000 Minardi
Wind tunnel operating costs $93,600,000
$15,100,000 Ferrari
$12,900,000 McLaren
$12,200,000 Williams
$11,600,000 Toyota
$10,400,000 Sauber
$10,100,000 BAR
$ 8,000,000 Renault
$ 5,500,000 Jaguar
$ 4,500,000 Jordan
$ 3,300,000 Minardi
Travel and accommodation $86,600,000
$18,000,000 Ferrari
$13,000,000 McLaren
$12,000,000 Toyota
$ 9,300,000 Williams
$ 7,900,000 BAR
$ 7,500,000 Renault
$ 6,800,000 Sauber
$ 5,300,000 Jaguar
$ 4,500,000 Jordan
$ 2,300,000 Minardi
Corporate entertaining and catering $62,850,000
$12,200,000 Williams
$ 9,700,000 Ferrari
$ 8,900,000 McLaren
$ 7,200,000 BAR
$ 6,700,000 Renault
$ 6,300,000 Toyota
$ 5,600,000 Jaguar
$ 4,300,000 Sauber
$ 1,600,000 Jordan
$ 350,000 Minardi
Car manufacturing costs $19,250,000
$4,100,000 Ferrari
$2,700,000 McLaren
$2,000,000 Toyota
$2,000,000 BAR
$1,900,000 Sauber
$1,500,000 Jordan
$1,500,000 Williams
$1,400,000 Renault
$1,400,000 Jaguar
$ 750,000 Minardi
#17
04-19-2009, 04:23 PM
Scott Speed raced last year but didn't get a ride this year. In 2010, an american group will compete in F1. The team will be called US Gran Prix Engineering, will be based in the U.S. and will have american drivers.
#18
04-19-2009, 05:24 PM
Also, most drivers come to a team with "seat money" from a sponsor. As F1 has no audience in the US, there is less motivation for a sponsor to get behind an American driver. To contrast, Honda kept Takuma Sato in a race seat far longer than they should have, because he had such a strong following in Japan. (They even funded a new team, Super Aguri, just to keep Sato in a Honda powered car after they HAD to cut him.) The best example of the importance of driver sponsorships in F1 was when Eddie Jordan said that he originally only gave Schumacher a drive because he came with a boatload of cash. The most dominant driver in F1 almost never got to race. Ha.
#19
04-19-2009, 05:34 PM
but you have to remember it is MERCEDES Mclaren and mercedes does produce a tone of cars
#21
04-19-2009, 06:49 PM
Join Date: Aug 2006
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F1 is the pinnacle of modern day racing
mind blowing figures...
WOW!!!
those numbers are insane!
I believe Porsche does not belong to the F1 ,since they have a good rep at all the cup events and endurance races and all the heart and spirit of Porsche car development and brand marketing is more linked to Norschleife races,DTM and endurance racing etc with harsh conditions which requires cars that can endure a lot of stress on their parts and still perform great.
F1 cars are pussies...
one little bumper to bumper kiss and the cars are done..
but then,they perform so unbelievably great and have this nice sound that one can only love those F1 race cars
WOW!!!
those numbers are insane!
I believe Porsche does not belong to the F1 ,since they have a good rep at all the cup events and endurance races and all the heart and spirit of Porsche car development and brand marketing is more linked to Norschleife races,DTM and endurance racing etc with harsh conditions which requires cars that can endure a lot of stress on their parts and still perform great.
F1 cars are pussies...
one little bumper to bumper kiss and the cars are done..but then,they perform so unbelievably great and have this nice sound that one can only love those F1 race cars
#22
04-20-2009, 06:22 AM
sorry guys..
I know that F1 cars are on top of anything out there and are masterpieces of modern engineering with the most advanced technology...that`s why I admire F1 racing.
the phrase "F1 cars are pussies" was just a satirical joke..
of course they aren`t supposed to race like maniacs bumper to bumper.
but due to the lightweight construction and aerodynamical gimmicks they are very "sensitive" compared to DTM and cup cars which are often able to finish a race with minor damages.
I know that F1 cars are on top of anything out there and are masterpieces of modern engineering with the most advanced technology...that`s why I admire F1 racing.
the phrase "F1 cars are pussies" was just a satirical joke..
of course they aren`t supposed to race like maniacs bumper to bumper.
but due to the lightweight construction and aerodynamical gimmicks they are very "sensitive" compared to DTM and cup cars which are often able to finish a race with minor damages.
#23
04-20-2009, 09:50 AM
Being a hair away from ruining your race makes a side-by-side pass that much more exciting. I wish there were a happy medium to encourage more passing, though.
#24
04-20-2009, 10:07 AM
My grandfather was the founding President and CEO of Porsche N.A. in the 80's. I was just a small child but I believe part of the reason was that F1 outlawed turbocharging which eliminated a lot of Porsche's area of expertise in engineering and simulaneously got rid of a lot of R&D that could be applied to road going Porsche's.
#25
04-20-2009, 10:39 AM
My grandfather was the founding President and CEO of Porsche N.A. in the 80's. I was just a small child but I believe part of the reason was that F1 outlawed turbocharging which eliminated a lot of Porsche's area of expertise in engineering and simulaneously got rid of a lot of R&D that could be applied to road going Porsche's.
Last edited by MTheory; 04-20-2009 at 08:32 PM.
#26
04-20-2009, 11:00 AM
Porsche has said repeatedly that its not racing that will market their cars effectively. By racing sports cars, mainly various forms of 911s, fans are exposed to the different capabilities of the 911. I think they could compete in F1, but I just don't see the point.
#28
04-20-2009, 02:07 PM
Toyota is just out to say they can build any car... at least they have the budget.
I honestly don't see anything from F1 coming to a road car (maybe except Ferrari), especially since aerodynamics are rated as 70-90% of the car's performance. At least when Porsche races a 911, it's easier to reflect developments in its road cars.
Last edited by jherbias; 04-20-2009 at 02:09 PM.
#29
04-20-2009, 02:12 PM
I like that Porsche sticks with what works for them. I believe that if Porsche were to get involved in other racing such as F1, it would dilute what they currently have, especially with the cup cars and GT3's.
I could see a child company such as vw or even lambo getting invlolved, but Porsche would insualte itself from a direct association. Porsche and F1 politics would go over well either, especially the perceived favoritism of certain teams. To me, Porsche seems a company that likes to define their fate, as opposed to a certain group (cough-FIA-cough) or person (burp-ecclestone-belch) defining their fate for them.
I could see a child company such as vw or even lambo getting invlolved, but Porsche would insualte itself from a direct association. Porsche and F1 politics would go over well either, especially the perceived favoritism of certain teams. To me, Porsche seems a company that likes to define their fate, as opposed to a certain group (cough-FIA-cough) or person (burp-ecclestone-belch) defining their fate for them.
Porsche's racing department is maxed out. All the cup cars they develop, distribute and support fill the capacity of the racing team. Porsche has the biggest factory produced race car market in the world. Nearly every racing Porsche you see comes built from the factory. There is a whole european cup series, and an american one, with amatuer racing cups all over the place. Where as racing teams make their own versions of other cars on a regular basis, same cannot be said for the Porsches. But now that they own VW, they may be able to jump into F1, but it would have to make sense.
From a marketing standpoint I can't see that there would be any advantage since Porsche has a gigantic foothold in racing as it is.
From a marketing standpoint I can't see that there would be any advantage since Porsche has a gigantic foothold in racing as it is.
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