Ultra-modded 996tt
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,803
From: Missing in action
Rep Power: 214
Originally posted by StephenTi
You can go to a dual-MAF setup if you electrically reduce their signals by 1/2 and add up the two independent signals before reaching the ECU. I don't think it's that hard to accomplish via your typical resisters/etc... but, I barely passed my elec eng classes, so I'm not claiming to know how... only that it's doable. Supras have used this setup. Another way is the go with a MAP setup in place of the MAF sensor setup. This would get rid of a lot of headaches that our tuners have to put up with. While the general consensus is that the measure of air via this method is less accurate, I personally think it's more than adequet. Majority of Japanese aftermarket force-induction applications, street and race, use this setup.
You can go to a dual-MAF setup if you electrically reduce their signals by 1/2 and add up the two independent signals before reaching the ECU. I don't think it's that hard to accomplish via your typical resisters/etc... but, I barely passed my elec eng classes, so I'm not claiming to know how... only that it's doable. Supras have used this setup. Another way is the go with a MAP setup in place of the MAF sensor setup. This would get rid of a lot of headaches that our tuners have to put up with. While the general consensus is that the measure of air via this method is less accurate, I personally think it's more than adequet. Majority of Japanese aftermarket force-induction applications, street and race, use this setup.
Craig
Porsche Fiend
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,875
From: Malibu, CA
Rep Power: 139
I think the way Protomotive did it was to relocate the MAF downstream of the compressors and program around it. It sounds like the system you describe is similar or identical to the intake on my old Turbo. I also ran the external Tial wastegates, etc.
To say that this intake system makes a huge difference is an understatement. Even CJV knows that this intake is even more efficient than his, but he didn't want the loud "turbo" noise.
Craig, if what you want is a super fast Porsche that will whoop *** on the street, you should call Protomotive.
To say that this intake system makes a huge difference is an understatement. Even CJV knows that this intake is even more efficient than his, but he didn't want the loud "turbo" noise.
Craig, if what you want is a super fast Porsche that will whoop *** on the street, you should call Protomotive.
Moderator
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 22,235
Rep Power: 1227
Originally posted by Craig
Thanks for the useful data Stephen. The tuners I have spoken with state that a dual MAF set up is not workable (or at least not easily workable). I would love to do it if it was. According to people far wiser than I, there is no easy way to add the data from two different MAFs. Moreover, GIAC does not presently have a method for processing two separate readings. Furthermore, you cannot simply double the reading from one, side, as each turbo pulls slightly different than the other. I don't know, but if someone could figure this out, it would seem to be the best way to pull cold air directly into the turbos, without passing the hot engine, using much larger piping, and a very direct route.
Craig
Thanks for the useful data Stephen. The tuners I have spoken with state that a dual MAF set up is not workable (or at least not easily workable). I would love to do it if it was. According to people far wiser than I, there is no easy way to add the data from two different MAFs. Moreover, GIAC does not presently have a method for processing two separate readings. Furthermore, you cannot simply double the reading from one, side, as each turbo pulls slightly different than the other. I don't know, but if someone could figure this out, it would seem to be the best way to pull cold air directly into the turbos, without passing the hot engine, using much larger piping, and a very direct route.
Craig
Moderator
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 22,235
Rep Power: 1227
Originally posted by Hamann7
I think the way Protomotive did it was to relocate the MAF downstream of the compressors and program around it. It sounds like the system you describe is similar or identical to the intake on my old Turbo. I also ran the external Tial wastegates, etc.
To say that this intake system makes a huge difference is an understatement. Even CJV knows that this intake is even more efficient than his, but he didn't want the loud "turbo" noise.
Craig, if what you want is a super fast Porsche that will whoop *** on the street, you should call Protomotive.
I think the way Protomotive did it was to relocate the MAF downstream of the compressors and program around it. It sounds like the system you describe is similar or identical to the intake on my old Turbo. I also ran the external Tial wastegates, etc.
To say that this intake system makes a huge difference is an understatement. Even CJV knows that this intake is even more efficient than his, but he didn't want the loud "turbo" noise.
Craig, if what you want is a super fast Porsche that will whoop *** on the street, you should call Protomotive.
Last edited by cjv; Oct 22, 2004 at 01:03 PM.
Banned
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,935
From: L.A.
Rep Power: 100
The limitations of the intake side is the section between the intake plenum just aft of the MAF and the turbos. The plastic runner's cross section is squished into a surprisingly small area. Per a conversation that I had with Kevin, it's almost as if Porsche had intended them to act as air restrictors to keep the power hungry from get'n out of hand. The work-around would appear to be very easy, as those runners obviously only direct air, and don't experience boost. One would simply need some tubing, be it spat tubing or high-temp rubber hoses (similar to radiator hosing). The problem would be to actually gain access to the tubing, and to be able to modify part of the aluminum plenum to accept these mods. That's why S Car Go, Techart, and RUF all have replacements for those sections.
Tyson... any idea what protomotive would charge to fine-tune an ECU? Would they make "house calls"?
Tyson... any idea what protomotive would charge to fine-tune an ECU? Would they make "house calls"?
Last edited by StephenTi; Oct 22, 2004 at 01:06 PM.
Moderator
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 22,235
Rep Power: 1227
Originally posted by StephenTi
The limitations of the intake side is the section between the intake plenum just aft of the MAF and the turbos. The plastic runner's cross section is squished into a surprisingly small area. Per a conversation that I had with Kevin, it's almost as if Porsche had intended them to act as air restrictors to keep the power hungry from get'n out of hand. The work-around would appear to be very easy, as those runners obviously only direct air, and don't esperience boost. One would simply need some tubing, be it spat tubing or high-temp rubber hoses (similar to radiator hosing). The problem would be to actually gain access to the tubing, and to be able to modify part of the aluminum plenum to accept these mods. That's why S Car Go, Techart, and RUF all have replacements for those sections.
Tyson... any idea what protomotive would charge to fine-tune an ECU? Would they make "house calls"?
The limitations of the intake side is the section between the intake plenum just aft of the MAF and the turbos. The plastic runner's cross section is squished into a surprisingly small area. Per a conversation that I had with Kevin, it's almost as if Porsche had intended them to act as air restrictors to keep the power hungry from get'n out of hand. The work-around would appear to be very easy, as those runners obviously only direct air, and don't esperience boost. One would simply need some tubing, be it spat tubing or high-temp rubber hoses (similar to radiator hosing). The problem would be to actually gain access to the tubing, and to be able to modify part of the aluminum plenum to accept these mods. That's why S Car Go, Techart, and RUF all have replacements for those sections.
Tyson... any idea what protomotive would charge to fine-tune an ECU? Would they make "house calls"?
There is a big difference between S Car Go and Techart/Ruf. S Car Go uses CF which is not only smooth but also does not act as a heat sink. Both the others use a combination of aluminum and coiled hose. The Aluminum acts as a heat sink and the coiled hose is both restrictive and not very smooth or aerodynamic.
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,803
From: Missing in action
Rep Power: 214
Originally posted by Hamann7
Craig, if what you want is a super fast Porsche that will whoop *** on the street, you should call Protomotive.
Craig, if what you want is a super fast Porsche that will whoop *** on the street, you should call Protomotive.
Protomotive does some awesome, cutting edge stuff, and builds some amazing cars (faster than mine -- Todd K. is currently working on a 1200 hp monster with some mods that have never been discussed here before). However, there are additional risks (and costs) associated with these cutting edge mods, and I personally am happy to accept something a tad less aggressive (but still ridiculously fast).
Craig
Moderator
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 22,235
Rep Power: 1227
Originally posted by Craig
Thanks for the advice Tyson. Fortunately, I already have a fast Porsche that "whoops *** on the street" -- Speed Gallery achieved that.
Protomotive does some awesome, cutting edge stuff, and builds some amazing cars (faster than mine -- Todd K. is currently working on a 1200 hp monster with some mods that have never been discussed here before). However, there are additional risks (and costs) associated with these cutting edge mods, and I personally am happy to accept something a tad less aggressive (but still ridiculously fast).
Craig
Thanks for the advice Tyson. Fortunately, I already have a fast Porsche that "whoops *** on the street" -- Speed Gallery achieved that.
Protomotive does some awesome, cutting edge stuff, and builds some amazing cars (faster than mine -- Todd K. is currently working on a 1200 hp monster with some mods that have never been discussed here before). However, there are additional risks (and costs) associated with these cutting edge mods, and I personally am happy to accept something a tad less aggressive (but still ridiculously fast).
Craig
Craig,
Everyone mods their turbo's for different reasons. If it is built the way they want that is all that really matters. Everything anyone does has it's tradeoffs.
Last edited by cjv; Oct 22, 2004 at 01:17 PM.
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,803
From: Missing in action
Rep Power: 214
Originally posted by cjv
So is Todd going to really finish Alex's car?
So is Todd going to really finish Alex's car?
My comment about the "1200 hp monster" was based on a brief conversation I had with Todd K. about six weeks ago. He described some pretty wild mods, and extensive custom work, but I have no idea who the car is being built for. FWIW, he also mentioned a price that exceeds any "stage packages" offered by sponsers here (although likely considerably less than what you have spent).Craig
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,803
From: Missing in action
Rep Power: 214
Originally posted by cjv
Everyone mods their turbo's for different reasons. If it is built the way they want that is all that really matters. Everything anyone does has it's tradeoffs.
Everyone mods their turbo's for different reasons. If it is built the way they want that is all that really matters. Everything anyone does has it's tradeoffs.
Craig
Moderator
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 22,235
Rep Power: 1227
Originally posted by Craig
If the question was directed at me, I have no idea who Alex is. My comment about the "1200 hp monster" was based on a brief conversation I had with Todd K. about six weeks ago. He described some pretty wild mods, and extensive custom work, but I have no idea who the car is being built for. FWIW, he also mentioned a price that exceeds any "stage packages" offered by sponsers here (although likely considerably less than what you have spent).
Craig
If the question was directed at me, I have no idea who Alex is.
My comment about the "1200 hp monster" was based on a brief conversation I had with Todd K. about six weeks ago. He described some pretty wild mods, and extensive custom work, but I have no idea who the car is being built for. FWIW, he also mentioned a price that exceeds any "stage packages" offered by sponsers here (although likely considerably less than what you have spent).Craig
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,803
From: Missing in action
Rep Power: 214
Originally posted by cjv
Yes, that is Alex's car. He also has a lambo with a 250 shot of NOS. I know Alex and what he is doing with Protomotive. Alex's car will be a contender. His car has been at Protomotive since the last shootout.
Yes, that is Alex's car. He also has a lambo with a 250 shot of NOS. I know Alex and what he is doing with Protomotive. Alex's car will be a contender. His car has been at Protomotive since the last shootout.
Craig
Yup Alex' car will be pushing the envelope in many many ways... It's going to be more of a car that should go against CJVs and Kevin's. It will likely kick some serious cohonees. Only car I know of that will come with a 4.0L to the shoot out... Speed Gallery is/was supposedly working on one but I heard they're sadly not coming