996 Turbo / GT2 Turbo discussion on previous model 2000-2005 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo and 911 GT2.

Ultra-modded 996tt

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Old Oct 22, 2004 | 05:24 AM
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Ultra-modded 996tt

I was at Beverly Hills Porsche this morning and they had a 996TT there that had more modifications than any 996TT I have ever seen, including some mods that I don’t even understand (which doesn’t mean much given my lack of technical knowledge). I think the mods may have been done by Protomotive, but that’s just a guess. The car is owned by a guy in El Paso, Texas, but he only allows one particular mechanic in Beverly Hills to work on his car, so he flat beds the car back and forth to Beverly Hills whenever it needs repair. The car had a blown head gasket and the engine was out of the car, thereby allowing me an up close and personal look. The car is a medium shade of blue (didn’t look like a factory color), with a GT2 wing and the words “BITURBO” painted on the side, in small letters, just above the rocker panel. Does anyone here know this car?

The following is a summary of some of the mods – those with greater technical proficiency (just about everyone), please help me to understand some of these things:

The car had Garrett turbos and enormous intercoolers (the biggest intercoolers I have ever seen on a 996TT) – it looked like two stock intercoolers welded together – they were huge – and obviously custom piping between the turbos and intercoolers. I wouldn't have thought that such enormous intercoolers would fit -- perhaps other modifications were done to make room.

The cats said “Magnaflow” on them – I don’t think Magnaflow makes a bolt on exhaust for a 996TT – it appeared that the tuner custom fabricated an exhaust using Magnaflow cats, non-descript mufflers, and very large diameter custom piping.

Now here is where is gets weird (at least for me, and forgive me if my description is unclear): There was a small gauge metal pipe (approx 1 in outside diameter) running from the headers (at the collector) (on each side) to the exhaust tips, with a Tial wastegate/bov spliced into the middle of the pipe – let me be clear, this was not a cat bypass running off of the turbo – this pipe (on each side) was literally coming off of the header, at the collector, by passing the turbo, and running straight to the exhaust tip, with Tial wastegates in the middle – there was also a smaller gauge braided steel hose running from the Tial wastegate to a metal canister, and then from the metal canister to the turbos. I have never seen this before? What is this? Ive heard of Garrett turbos that employ lubricating devices for the ball bearings – is the metal canister adjacent to the turbos related to that? What about the pipe running off of the header – what is that?

The car also does not utilize the factory airbox. Rather, there are 12 in long, custom made pipes running off of the intake side of the turbos, with cone air filters at the end – the turbos draw air through independent cone filters. My question is this: What about the MAF? How does this car get around the MAF. I didn’t see any holes in either of the intake pipes for a MAF. Moreover, the ECU is calibrated for only one MAF, which is supposed to measure airflow to both turbos – how does one program around the MAF, or bolt the MAF on the intake for only one turbo? FWIW, these are not new questions . . . I have spoken with more than one tuner about precisely these issues, including two days ago, as it would be great to draw air from the intercooler inlets straight to the turbos, but the consensus among the folks I have spoken with (inc GIAC) is that it can’t be done safely and effectively because of the MAF. I know Protomotive has done it (thats why I assumed this car was tuned by them), but I have heard mixed info about how well it works.

The piping from the intercoolers to the TB was also custom and huge, with two Tial wastegates (one on each side) before the pipes merge. Likewise, the TB appeared much larger than stock.

Interestingly, with all these wild mods, the car was on stock wheels and tires.

Very interesting car!!!

Craig
 

Last edited by Craig; Oct 22, 2004 at 05:26 AM.
Old Oct 22, 2004 | 05:29 AM
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Wow.
 
Old Oct 22, 2004 | 06:01 AM
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Being blue and with those mods it does sound a lot like Tyson's old car... Some of the mods ring a bell. Hope it's ok!
 
Old Oct 22, 2004 | 06:04 AM
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As I recall, Tyson's old car was dark blue . . . this one was medium blue (Royal blue). Moreover, Tyson's car had after-market wheels -- these were stock. BTW, it also had PCCB brakes.

Craig
 
Old Oct 22, 2004 | 06:11 AM
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Here is a photo of Tyson's old car -- definitely different. The car I saw was slightly lighter in color, had different exhaust tips (not Tyson's round tips), different exhaust (Tyson was not using Magnaflow cats), different wheels, and different brakes (Tyson had stock brakes). Moreover, Tyson's car didn't have a GT2 wing or the words "BITURBO" painted on the side.



http://www.europeancarweb.com/features/0404ec_titans01/

Craig
 
Old Oct 22, 2004 | 06:17 AM
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Sounds like a hell of a car... and from the way you describe it, typically Protomotive.

Protomotive usually puts a sticker that is visible when you pop open the engine cover.

Like I said before, Protomotive's conversions are much more extreme than other tuners.
 
Old Oct 22, 2004 | 06:19 AM
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That isn't Tyson's car. This car also was not done By Todd. It was done by a place in Fl and ultimately lost the motor. The owner had a CGT on order and once it came in has lost interest with the TT.
 
Old Oct 22, 2004 | 06:22 AM
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Thats the one . . . they mentioned the CGT.

So what the heck are those mods?

Craig
 
Old Oct 22, 2004 | 06:29 AM
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Originally posted by PorschePhD
That isn't Tyson's car. This car also was not done By Todd. It was done by a place in Fl and ultimately lost the motor. The owner had a CGT on order and once it came in has lost interest with the TT.
So, I imagine that it was tuned by Prototech...Protomotive's Florida affiliate.
 
Old Oct 22, 2004 | 06:30 AM
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Todd Knighton has an East Coast affiliate in Florida called Proto Tech, run by a guy named Dave. If it's not Todd, it sounds like Dave's work. Protomotive does all their software, and Todd and Dave co-develop a lot of the hardware.

These guys held the record a few years back (not sure where they stand now) for the fastest street-legal Porsche at Bonneville with a 860hp 993 turbo running 1.4 bar.
 
Old Oct 22, 2004 | 06:34 AM
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Originally posted by Hamann7
Todd Knighton has an East Coast affiliate in Florida called Proto Tech, run by a guy named Dave. If it's not Todd, it sounds like Dave's work. Protomotive does all their software, and Todd and Dave co-develop a lot of the hardware.

These guys held the record a few years back (not sure where they stand now) for the fastest street-legal Porsche at Bonneville with a 860hp 993 turbo running 1.4 bar.
I know there supposed record holding Bonneville car well, they challanged my old 930 with its new owner to a race out on Chrome Ave, and guess who lost.
 
Old Oct 22, 2004 | 06:42 AM
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Originally posted by Hamann7
Todd Knighton has an East Coast affiliate in Florida called Proto Tech, run by a guy named Dave. If it's not Todd, it sounds like Dave's work. Protomotive does all their software, and Todd and Dave co-develop a lot of the hardware.

These guys held the record a few years back (not sure where they stand now) for the fastest street-legal Porsche at Bonneville with a 860hp 993 turbo running 1.4 bar.
I would be a little wary of Dave...he spec'd and sold me a GT-3 Cup suspension for my car that was supposed to be great and in my estimation was anything but great. Was supposed to be dbl. adjustable...wasn't adjustable at all. Was supposed to work great on mountain roads...had so little droop that the car would basically go airborne over any bump (believe it still had the droop limiters in the shocks to work with the air jacks that cup cars use). Dave is supposed to be an ex pro-rally driver (and perhaps he is)... and this suspension was supposed to be something he worked up on his own to optimize handling on real roads. It took me many calls and emails to even get a list of the parts that he sold and shipped to me...after numerous unfulfilled promises to do this.

I am sure that he has probably done some great cars and has served many others well. That just was not my experience in my own opinion.
 
Old Oct 22, 2004 | 06:58 AM
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I have no experience with Dave firsthand, but I do know that various people have had problems with him. Wilber's original exhaust was fabricated by Dave, and it cracked....

Allan, it does not surprise me that your car beat his 930. Protomotive and Proto Tech use almost identical approaches to tuning, but Todd and Cynthia's work tends to be more consistent according to what I've heard. Then again, who knows.
 

Last edited by Hamann7; Oct 22, 2004 at 07:02 AM.
Old Oct 22, 2004 | 08:06 AM
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pictures please
 
Old Oct 22, 2004 | 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by Craig

Now here is where is gets weird (at least for me, and forgive me if my description is unclear): There was a small gauge metal pipe (approx 1 in outside diameter) running from the headers (at the collector) (on each side) to the exhaust tips, with a Tial wastegate/bov spliced into the middle of the pipe – let me be clear, this was not a cat bypass running off of the turbo – this pipe (on each side) was literally coming off of the header, at the collector, by passing the turbo, and running straight to the exhaust tip, with Tial wastegates in the middle – there was also a smaller gauge braided steel hose running from the Tial wastegate to a metal canister, and then from the metal canister to the turbos. I have never seen this before? What is this? Ive heard of Garrett turbos that employ lubricating devices for the ball bearings – is the metal canister adjacent to the turbos related to that? What about the pipe running off of the header – what is that?
The Tial wastegate is exactly what you described it to be. It's an external wastegate employed to basically do what our internal wastegates do. It is common (though not with our cars) for high-boosting aftermarket applications to use external wastegates for it's higher flowing applications as well as as minimization of turbulance within the housing itself. It also isolates the wastegate from the turbo, enabling more options in component selection, tuning, and repairs. Tial is a very good brand. Not sure what the metal canister is, but the only connections for a wastegate are: One end is the pre-turbo exhaust end, the other end is a dump-tube that either dumps to atmosphere or back into the exhaust system. A vacuum line off of the intake manifold is the signal line. (Occassionally, some setups use dual signal setups where in addition to the vacuum signal, they'll also use a boost-only signal line (pre tb) on the other end of the diaphram/cylinder.)

Originally posted by Craig

The car also does not utilize the factory airbox. Rather, there are 12 in long, custom made pipes running off of the intake side of the turbos, with cone air filters at the end – the turbos draw air through independent cone filters. My question is this: What about the MAF? How does this car get around the MAF. I didn’t see any holes in either of the intake pipes for a MAF. Moreover, the ECU is calibrated for only one MAF, which is supposed to measure airflow to both turbos – how does one program around the MAF, or bolt the MAF on the intake for only one turbo? FWIW, these are not new questions . . . I have spoken with more than one tuner about precisely these issues, including two days ago, as it would be great to draw air from the intercooler inlets straight to the turbos, but the consensus among the folks I have spoken with (inc GIAC) is that it can’t be done safely and effectively because of the MAF. I know Protomotive has done it (thats why I assumed this car was tuned by them), but I have heard mixed info about how well it works.
You can go to a dual-MAF setup if you electrically reduce their signals by 1/2 and add up the two independent signals before reaching the ECU. I don't think it's that hard to accomplish via your typical resisters/etc... but, I barely passed my elec eng classes, so I'm not claiming to know how... only that it's doable. Supras have used this setup. Another way is the go with a MAP setup in place of the MAF sensor setup. This would get rid of a lot of headaches that our tuners have to put up with. While the general consensus is that the measure of air via this method is less accurate, I personally think it's more than adequet. Majority of Japanese aftermarket force-induction applications, street and race, use this setup.
 


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