Hi all,

I test drove a 996 Turbo S yesterday and there are a few things which the salesman tells me are normal, but I wonder.

The telescoping steering wheel is very hard to move in or out. Is this a Porsche caracteristic or is something not quiet right with this model?

The throttle pedal is also pretty hard to press.

The car has some has some cricky noise inside. Seems to be coming from the roof area and can be heard mainly on crummy roads.

The clutch pedal which is soft as butter has a tiny squeek when operated. "All Porsche do that" says the salesman.

The car also had a CEL which was turned off by the service department and did not reapear, a PO 300 or intermitent misfire, said the salesman.

The car has 42K miles and is otherwise quiet fast and comes as a certified car with 2 years/50Kmiles warranty The gear box has fairly long throws between the gears and the car would not boost past .9 bar, but it was pretty hot 90s and 91 octane gas in California. Probably OK.

Any advice and/or additional feedback on things to look for would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Philippe

 

A stock 996 turbo s will only see .9 bar at most. So that is normal. Regarding the telescoping wheel - mine is a little tight but I rarely use - set and forget. Throttle peddle is really just a potentiometer not a real throttle - it is an e-gas situation. "Cricky" noise could be the sun roof I guess. The tiny squeck could be due to a throwout bearing issue - hard to say. I would be concerned about the misfire - probably needs new plugs if they have not been changed yet - usually done at 30K service. Bottom line - get an independent PPI! Good luck

 

"Porsche Dealer"

or used car lot?

+1000 to independent inspection. Sharkwerks in Fremont, depending on where you and the car is... or have one of the 1000 members in the bay area do a driveby!

GL

A

 

Thanks for the quick answers.

The car is in Marin at Sonnen. Is the throttle not cable operated? If so that might explain the different feel. Misfire spark plug change, that makes sense. I hear there is quiet a bit of "stuf" to remove to get to the plugs. Most maintenance records are somewhat criptic to decipher. On tire wear, this particular car shows fairly even wear on the inner edge of the front tire, sales man says due to alignment. What is owner's experince? Slight shaking at 65mph. Should be wheel balancing. I own an evo 9 right now which handles very sharply. The 996 seems to be a litle more ponderous in the twisty stuff. OK asking for $60K. I am a motorcycle/car fan, so I would love to own a supercar. Can I not rely on a dealer for inspection, and should still do a PPI somewhere else? Thanks again.

Philippe

 

well as far as i know the 2005 was a very rare car,

6hr book time job for spark plugs

tires dont last long on these cars cause of the suspension setup inner edges always wear fast 2x faster in rear

go in shooting low n asking for the moon

find a mechanic u trust for a PPi even if u need to bring the car to him hours away

 

To change the plugs the rear bumper should be removed, the heat exchangers removed and then you can get to the plugs. Six hours shop time is about right. The 30K service is about 8 hours total and can run about $1500 including parts. There were about 1500 2005 turbos built world wide - all of the S variety. About 1000 were cabs and the rest coupes. A very small number of normal turbos were built in 2005 , none came to the US as I understand.
Throttle is not cable operated - uses an electronic throttle as did/does MB.
A good alignment will pay dividends in tire wear but will cost about $300.
There should be no shaking at 65 or 165 for that matter if you have a good alignment and wheel balance.
The car can be made to handle more crisply by installing PSS10's and lowering the ride height by about 1.25 inches.
An independent PPI by a KNOWLEDGEABLE Porsche shop (independent or dealer) is a must!!!!!! I would go to an independent first if at all possible.
As a point of reference - my 2005 turbo S cab with most all options was purchased 6 months ago for $64K - had 24K miles and was still under factory warranty. It did need tires. Retail MSRP in 2005 was $159K.

 

No..No you cannot.

If the dealer cannot give you a cogent, straightforward answer on "what maintenance was done", how can you expect them to honestly say "well, the suspension needs work and we need to drop the sunroof to find that squeek... and since WE own the car, WE will wind up paying the $4000 to do all that>?!?!?

Assume that EVERYTHING the salesman SAYS is a lie. Only trust written documents from him.

Is the car currently under warranty? Ask them if they would CPO the car... that will tell you alot.

In any event, I recommend the "CPO inspection" and add a DME dump for error codes and overrevs. Use the CPO checklist and cpo criteria, even if you dont get the CPO warranty. The warranty is the only thing of value with the CPO. Cars that need tires or brakes often will not get CPOd due to the added cost to the dealer to replace those...

GL

A

 

Thank you all for the feed back.

It is going to be invaluable.

The paper work shows the car was inspected for Porsche Pre Owned Warranty Certification.

The car will carry a 2 years/50K miles extended warranty. That is because the original in service date was either late July or early August of 05. The car fax & the Vin Claim Summary Listing do not quiet match date nor mileage wise but seem to be pretty close. The engine was removed twice,
once to repair a leaky clutch slave cylinder at 5479 miles, and a second time at 21366 to replace a solenoid hydraulic valve CMA.
I was a little surpised by that, but again the sales said that is a simple operation to remove the engine 20 minutes or so and makes it easier to get it done. Makes me wonder about the 6 hour job for changing spark plugs though.
Dealer invoice shows $2846.41 in reconditioning expenses. New rear tires, replaced front spoiler, repaired front bumper (probably re painted it) and a 15K service, which seems to include an oil change but no spark plug changes.
The salesman claims the warranty doesn't cover emissions. I am a little surprised at that because I thought CA and Federal Emission Requirement mandated coverage for quiet a few years and miles. It might be only for the first owner though.
I will ask for a copy of the inspection check list results which will likely show how much work the dealer was willing to pay for to provide the CPO status with the car. I will also ask for a list of the error codes/over-rev events for the car. If the dealer declines to provide the data, I expect an independent like Sharkwerks in Fremont, would be able to do a DME dump, but that would be telling on the dealer's attitude. Thanks again for the feed back.

Philippe

Philippe

 

Excellent. Sounds like you are getting good information from which you can make a decision.

The plugs should have been done at 30k.. Where they? If not, this is owed to you. Indeed, the car should not be eligible for CPO if required maintenance was missing. The dealer will know WHO did the 30k service (their computer will have the dealer code) so you can contact that dealer (or SOnnen can) and ask what was on that dealer's work order.

The seller is responsible here in CA to have a Smog done. If there is a CEL it will not pass smog. I'd hate to think a dealer will reset a CEL, smog it quick just to sell it. On the other hand, if it doesn't come back is it right to expect them to just start replacing parts 'just in case'. Maybe ask them to guarantee to fix it if it returns within 30 days or 3k miles...whatever.

GL

A

 

OK - I have heard some strange things from dealers - but 20 minutes to drop the engine!!!!! No way! To drop and reinstall the engine is at least an 8 hour job and that is not shop time, but real time. So these guys are simply lying to you!!!! If it takes 20 minutes to drop the engine then that is how they would do it to replace the plugs. I would trust nothing these guys tell you - get it all in writing!!! Get the PPI before you go any further i.e. waste any more of your time.

 

Thanks for helping sift through the usual sales fairy tales. Particularly on the 20 minutes engine removal procedure! The car was serviced through out it's live at a dealer in Beverly Hills LA, so yes indeed documentation is available if they are willing to disclose. If not, well what can I say? OK I am off to look for the latest copy of Total 911, a british Porsche magazine which has a couple of interesting sounding articles. Porsche 996 Turbo vs Ferrari 575. Two great supercars battle it out, but which would you choose? and Reinventing the 911: How Porsche developed the all-new 996 – and why.

Philippe

 

this sure doesn't sound a like a porsche dealer. i wouldn't have bought without a dealer. there are just too many tt's around that get certified by the dealer, which then makes it easier when warranty issues arise ( and they will ). mine was certified @ 27k, and they threw in the 30 k service before i purchased, which as you said, incl plugs/filters oil, and smogging it for transfer etc.

that stuff just seems like what any reputable dealer would do, and there's a comfort level that comes with buying from a dealership ESP a car that's 4 to 7 years old. i've just found out literally that they will stand behind their stuff. i've had less hassle this time around on a 6yr old tt than i did when i bought a new 993 awhile back that had never ending issues.

as to the 20 min engine drop?.. WTF!? i'd split then and there.

 

The misfire could be due to the spark plug(s) or the coil(s). If the service was done recently to fix the misfire the fault code will appear, My indy tells me you need to drive about 75 to 100 miles to clear out fault codes.

Make sure who looks at the car to look really close at the front end for damage.

Have them them fix the noise in the sunroof, it probably will not be covered by the CPO.

 

Sonnen Porsche in Marin, California is pretty established.

Of course the salesguys are all pretty much scum no matter the dealer- they'll stretch the truth if they think the buyer is gullible....in this case the sales guy is trying to minimize the work. Just for "S's and G's" ask the sales guy to repeat that in front of the service manager and offer to buy 'three engine removals, in advance for one hour of labor".. see how that goes! Nice to have in your pocket for future use!

Certainly Sonnen can get the service data from Beverly if they wish.

Look, they have a particular hand dealt to them- a car taken on trade probably, and now trying to move it without loosing money.

Like we've said- ignore the sales puke, come to an agreement on price, get the PPI, go from there...

GL

A

 

I have asked for the records from Beverly Hills and the friendly sales guy has agreed to provide them, some times this week. I should be able to get a better picture of the car once I audit them.
On the cel business, I get a random PO300, intermittent misfire, once in the while on the evo9 but it won't go away unless I erase it with a cheap OBDII code reader. If I can do that so can the dealer without fixing any thing, which it sounds as if they did. Another thing I noticed was some dirt and leaves at the bottom of the radiator behind the grill, I would think the dealer would clean this out before putting the car up for dale. Then again the car has been driven some 400 miles since it was first inspected for certification. Is it common for debris to accumulate like that? The sales guy mentioned that the car has aluminum fenders, then roof, then doors then whatever...I knocked on the various parts but couldn't quiet tell. Any truth to it. The EVO does which is why I am asking. Thanks again to all of you for the feedback. I expect to have more questions once I have the records.

Philippe