Alright, I have stock K16s, forge diverter valves and an unknown 1.0 bar flash that was in the car at the time of purchase - some people here think is GIAC looking at my Pbox curves. Car puts out around 500 fwhp according to Performance Box and 60-130 times with stock weight, hp number varies a little depending on air temp and gas.

For 2010 I am doing a few mods to cut 4 seconds off of 2 minute laptimes. Camber and toe links rear are one thing (to match front GT2 arms), tires another, 2wd+LSD conversion is coming as well + I have been approached by a very professional racing company that wants to build a lightweight exhaust for the car over the winter + do a serious dyno job on the car.

How much further can the oem K16s go with keeping solid reliability?

Engine runs really great as it is now, torque comes on pretty fast and it has great peak hp, pulls all the way to 7000 rpm. I just want 100 hp more - and this is a "hobby" project so don't want to spend 10K on it (maybe this is impossible)

 

16g upgrade and our program(protomtive) with ability to fine tune via durametric cable ..
a few other vendors have good programs as well...

 

Is that all it takes? Turbo hw upgrade and flash?

Except the coming race exhaust and existing diverter valves (+existing flash), this car is bone stock. What more will I really need for 600 fwhp? Injectors? Change to fuel pressure regulator? Other ICs?

I am a racing guy with little experience with turbos other than driving on track using the hp they produce.

Thx in advance.

 

16g will take you up to 550ish crank horsepower. Very simple mod that keeps great mid range torque and response. Next step up would be K24/18g which will give you more top end power but also shift your torque curve slightly to the right. I have no experience with either on a track, but I think the 16gs would be sufficient. You will also "feel" more power with the RWD conversion

 

a 16g at 1.2 bar is very good on a track... preferred over a 18g... which also requires K24s( $2500set).
you will be close to 600 hp... very close.. if you pair that up with a free flowing exhaust you will do great...
here is my custom 3 inch stainless X design exhaust.... 100 cell cats or catless if you like... It weights 19 lb.s without cats and 24 lbs with cats...
We make them in house...

 

Hey Markski how much does that exhaust cost? You can PM me if youde like

thanks

 

Pardon me for diverting the thread... The suggestions above are all fine for bumping up the hp. But in my opinion, if your objective is really to cut 4 seconds off of a 2 minute lap time, you would be better of modifying your suspension, not the motor.

Sway bars, upgraded spring/shocks (PSSx, JIC, Moton), lowering + corner balancing are the mods to the car, and a Traqmate system to give you a no BS report on how you are doing.

Just my 2 cents...

Jon

 

In addition to this, driver education is probably the best way to cut lap times. The OP didn't mention their experience, so please forgive me if you've already been to PDE, Skip Barber, etc.

 

there are a couple top tuners around, id suggest Proto and EPL,

turbos dont go too big stay fairly small i have what most around here consider small turbos gt28 types and without suspension mods the hit in the middle of a corner easily breaks traction and becomes a handful if your not prepared. i like to drift some times but drifting doesn't make lap times go up. make sure your suspension is upto par before blowing 5-6k on engine mods.

a local guy here threw on some lowering spring n liked the stability but then put on some sway bars and could not believe how it changed the car n dropped 4 seconds i think off his lap times. my car has a lil more power then your shooting for and it has pretty good condition stock suspension and im all over the place under hard acceleration i was going to add a bunch more power to my car to be faster when i realized i have a tough time getting the power to the ground safely now so i need to do suspension mods cause its crazy how it acts right now.

im running gt28 variant turbos, headers, fabspeed exhaust(100cel) upgraded intercoolers boost hoses DV's V flow, lightweight flywheel and a giac flash(old 2007) and the fuel system has a 5 bar FPR

 

I have had both k16/16g and k24/18g on the tracks around here. My vote definitely goes for 16g for the track duty. The spool is equal or better than stock with tons of low end TQ and very good power. At 1 bar you can expect to be at 550-575 CHP, maybe higher with 1.2 bar , free flowing exhaust etc...

Honestly , not sure how good of a driver you are ...16g will be a handful for most people i know. Start with suspension and other mods...no use if you have all the power and cant stop and turn fast.

 

I agree....power is plenty as is....lose some weight off the car, get suspsension and perhaps seats to "feel" the car. I just did that and it is worth way more than power to me.

Good SRF fluid so you can count on your brakes, perhaps some good pads, tires....the tires are worth more in time than 50 more HP unless it is a huge track....

A top driver in an unmodded car will toast me...as is....with all my mods. Just invest in seat time...way more fun than turbos and chips.......once you max out the car with skills...then go for power. Suspension to me did more for the car than any other thing..I have JIC's from Dan at Vivid...and the full control arm/sway/link adjustable package to boot. Corner balanced, and voila....way more car. I am no where near able to maximize it on the track yet...could take years.


Serious track guys seem to migrate to Lotus's....way down on power...just think about that for a bit.....I have. Way cheaper to maintain too....


Jeff

 

This is all i did with 16g , the car was a killer..

Motul 600 F brake fluid
Pagid yellow brake pads

Really want to do sway bars and coilovers soon...but as JCB says weight is the biggest issue with this car.

In fact i am buying a 2300lbs BMW 328is, fully built with cage just for racing. This will be a fun car to improve my skills and not worry about crashing etc...its a cheap track car. These type of cars can be had for 5k these days and are super reliable and fun.

 

Thanks a lot for all input! I really appreciate how you guys are chiming in with good advice. I could have posted a little more background but wanted to keep it short at first, here it is though.

Driving is covered starting with club racing in Europe 1996 and winning one of these championships in a Super Seven year 2000, moved to national racing in 2001 and in the next 4 years won two Endurance GT Racing Championships (964RS, 993 RSR) + runnerup 2005 (996 GT3 Cup), thereafter taking my first international win in Holland , the 2005 Zandvoort 500 in 996 GT3 RS (in this race drivers like Tom Colonel, Jam Lammers, Cor Euser). Done 4x24h of Nurburgring in GT3 (Cup to RSR), unfortunately that track is devastating when it comes to causing mechanicals, been in 9th total at best before engine failure (this in competition with works teams from Porsche, BMW, Aston Martin etc).

Purpose of this very car (in the avatar) is to use myself for competitive practice (time trial events) between pro events/racing for pro GT racing teams, just to stay sharp and keep working on the setup at different tracks. Suspension is getting there and I use Endless ME20 pads on stock setup, the car currently brakes at 1.3G and pulls 1.15G lat - with street tires (Hankook RS2). This is w/o having done the rear end camber arms yet - soon to come - and with this I can increase camber both front and rear, last time out I had to limit front camber to keep the car balanced. Car has PSS9 that it came with at purchase and Eibach racing swaybars I picked b/c they are absolutely awesome for this car. The PSS9 have to go soon, I want separate bump and compression + a little bit stiffer spring rates to move to R-comps (Suggestions anyone? KW I know but trying to keep this private project in line with some sort of senseful budget). R-comps will do a chunk of laptime, but after that, I have to look at more areas.

The aim is an efficient upgrade to make up for 100hp that several competitors have, corner exit speed can only do so much, and I still like using this car for daily so not looking to rip the interior out.

I put a half cage in, threw out unecessary items such as rear seats (the seatbacks were seriously heavy!), rear wiper+motor, also replaced the Turbo decklid with its hydraulics for a GT2 lid+adjustable wing from Misha. The 2WD conversion will do further good for weight and reduce rotating mass losses but I have yet to get a LSD installed, also a winter job. GT3/GT2 style seats will also save some lbs from the current heated power sport seats + increase feel. Also trying to locate a lightweight wheel that doesn't cost a million $$$.

More weight saved will be a built freeflow lightweight racing exhaust from a very skilled racecar company (the Markski exhaust looks very sweet otherwise).

I hope the sum of winter work will make it. All I need is to cut 0,4 secs in 10 turns (as a matter of speach). However, since it is not a major weight loss going on, I think it'll have to be more like 0,2 secs in 5 straights, and 0,3 secs in 10 turns - 0,1 on entry, 0,1 mid turn, 0,1 on exit.

For track usage and since it is qualifying style, all I really need is high end hp, between 5500 and 7000 rpm, and a pretty short lag for pickup after shifting.

So back to the main question of the thread , making an attempt to reach 600 fwhp, can it be done with K16 setup (based on responses I guess "yes" with K16 internal upgrade). What other hardware is needed to support 600hp - stock injectors and pump ok?? What about the stock internals - will they hold up?

A lot of questions re the power upgrade here... I am used to racing and setting up Pcars, but never had to care too much about the car itself when it comes to engine as it is always handled by pro teams. So I turn to fellow 6speeders since you have tons of experience getting anything from modest reliable to crazy hp out of these Turbo rockets.

 

Short list (please help me out here)

- Upgrade K16 internals to 16G or similar
- Freeflow exhaust (will be built/sponsored)
- Dynotune (will be done by the same company that makes the exhaust) to 1.0 or 1.2 bar (most likely two tunes, one for street, one for track)

- Does this mean different wastegates as well or can I use the ones on the car?
- Fuel supply?
- Intercoolers?
- How will stock engine internals handle 600hp in this car?

Core question is: What do I REALLY need (I know 'everything' is great to have but trying to keep the mods minor)

 

I'm currently running the setup you are looking for. Do yourself a favor and: (i) have the wastegate actuators upgraded at the same time you have the K16s rebuilt and (ii) swap out the stock 3.8 bar fuel pressure regulator for a 5.0 bar before you retune. That will get you to 600 flywheel (at 1.2 bar), but you'll have to go to ~90% injector duty cycle to get there.

You can always due injectors and engine build for that extra safety margin, but many here (myself included) run around 600 crank without and haven't had any problems. At only 600hp, the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Injectors are a PAIN to do on these cars.

What I love about the K16/16g setup is that they are very modulatable. GT28's are great and have very little lag, but they're on or off. I can hold .7 bar at part throttle through a corner with these. I've found that to be very useful. Much of this depends on how well your tuner tunes part-throttle situations, however.

Good luck!