I'm very close in installing methanol injection in the turbo. Just a quick question? Can I run my 104 race file safely or should I get retuned specifically for the methanol? I will be using 100% methanol to maximize octane.

 

I think you will definitely need a retune AND it might be too much octane. We did some experimenting with my car. I have 18g's, injectors and an Aquamist kit. We dyno'd with pump and 100% meth (which is what I run 100% of the time). We then went to MS109 and 50/50. (We couldn't dyno without the Aquamist kit as the safety's are hardwired in. If you shut the Aquamist off, you will be on waste gate spring). We could've done 100% water, but we didn't have any more jets around. At that same boost level, we made 20 more whp and 20 more ft/lbs on the MS109 and the 50/50.

 

Got it but can I run pump and 100% meth with my 109 race file? If I have to drive to Az I will

 

Sure...it'll work, but be very careful though. Despite what some think, pump and meth is NOT the same as race gas. The limiting factor is: you STILL have pump gas in your tank, even though you are adding octane. If you get a crappy tank of 93, you will be yanking a ton of timing at best, you know what the worst is. During our testing on my car, we couldn't run as much timing on pump/meth as we could with the race gas and 50/50.

 

Who exactly are "some people"?

I don't think anyone here is ignorant enough to believe that they are exactly the same thing (the additional tank of methanol is probably a good clue). What I think the belief is is that you can run pretty much the same boost and/or timing on pump/meth, so it performs like race gas, but everyone knows if the meth system fails you only have whatever octane fuel is left in the tank.

It's kind of a no-brainer...

 

Actually, that's not very true, especially on higher boost levels (above 1.5 bar). We run the decent timing amounts on race gas, but even with 100%meth, there is around 6 degrees knock on timing on higher RPM's. Plus, the acceleration numbers are better with race gas. But again, that's the case with the boost levels above 1.5 bar. I've run 1.85

 

Ya, we've gone round and round and round on this topic. Some people say it's not as good as race gas. Some say it is. Point is (as I stated above), it's "pretty much the same".

Also remember that the term "race gas" can mean anything from 98 octane to C16 to Fuel Alcohol, and I have no idea which level of race gas you're comparing it to. If pump/meth provides the same protection as 100 octane (which it certainly does) or even 104, then yes, it would very true that it is "just as good" as race gas.

Me? I'd never use it. I don't trust the systems enough.

 

This is what I have noticed using different types of fuel sources. Nothing compares to C16 when it comes to acceleration of the motor. They might make same peak numbers but how much faster C16 revs is just amazing! I am not an authority on this subject but it is just my two cents.
Robert

 

If you run 100% or even a high percentage of methanol (50% or greater) and the car is tuned for it and you stop running the methanol without retuning ....... you will lean your motor as in detonation.

 

Robert,

C16 ignites near TDC. When it ignites the burn is very fast and does not last very long. Ethanol by comparison burns all the way down the stroke. Install a Pulsed CDI system (which provides ignation all the way down the liner) with the ethanol and C16's acceleration will look like 100 octane race fuel by comparison.

 

It all comes down to the octane rating or octane rating equal. Octane does not make power by itself. Higher octane is hard to ignite. What higher octane does is become a resistant to pre ignition.

You are correct when you noticed higher timing ability on water than methane injection. The danger with high percentages of methane (tuned for usage above 50% meth) is if the meth goes out the motor goes lean and you will lose your motor. The same thing happens when you mix fuel in your tank. You usually never know what you have.

 

To use meth or not use meth is a personal decision. To use a methanol injection system with no protection, is a bad decision. By protection, I mean built in safety's. If money was no option, I would run race gas all the time, I don't, so Meth is my fix, for now. I know I am leaving something on the table with the meth, albeit, not a lot. As soon as my garage is done and I have somewhere to keep a 55 gal drum, I may have a race gas car with water injection.

 

If your gonna run 100% you defiantly should adjust afrs in your tune appropriately as meth has a different stoich ratio than pump. Also what CJV said if your tuned for 100% and it fails you'll go super lean and combine that with too much timing may blow.

Personally I like a 50-50% mix, water helps cool your boost temps. In my tune I found with 100% I get higher boost temps and get knock much easier. Plus running 50% is safer if you get in an car accident.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I've been told if the meth kit fails there are failsafes in place where it would drop boost back down to wastegate setting.

 

Would you suggest the hsf-3 or 6? Is $1000 for install reasonable?