The engine issue had nothing to do with the A28's..... It could have had 30/76 or even K16/16 for the problem.

 

I remember back in the days when k16/24s at 1.4 bar were bending rods ... 6speed members too..

 

so with the larger turbos, since the force is later in the revs (less time for combustion, per your comment) it is safer? but even in the later revs, there is still a breaking (or bending, rather) point, correct?


question for those that have a "detuned" or a stock block larger turbo setups. Do you guys plan on getting rods eventually, or just wanted more power without doing rods? Does it nag at you that you have more on the table with the turbo, being limited by rods?

 

the simplest way to put it - you go through the peak torque/load quicker when its at a higher RPM therefore. its also easier to "control" the larger turbos then the smaller ones, since in the smaller ones you cant really do too much about the smaller hotside and wheel.

im not sure if detuned is a right word. kind o flike glass half empty or glass half full - depends how you look at it. i look at it in a way where my turbos still have unexplored potential left in them. good to know that. maybe soon ill get Tony to turn it up a notch or two again

 

OK all this talk about bent rods and differing tunes does reaffirm with me that the simplicty and daily driveability of a AWE 700hp package just might be the way to go. I know between them and GIAC that there package should be well dialed in.

 

Most guys who bend rods usually are those who play with WG rods, run high boost, low octane and or think that meth is octane replacement. The same damage can be done on a XXX 700HP PACKAGE just buy running bad gas on a cool day... boost creeps up and kaboom... Or better yet.. a shop that doesn't re install the Wg hoses properly... seen that lately( k16 base turbos).
Clients buy into the game( the dyno game), and make us give them less reliable cars.. why? because when a shop with some k16 billet wheel turns up the car to 1.7 bar on C16 and makes big HP then we get questioned about our own kits... like "why are you selling 800 hp with 30rs when a K16s or better yet A28s do that all day long?" It's all marketing and who gets the client first... I can make 850RWHP on my 850hp kit but I do not sell it nor allow the client to run it up like that... thus often the others get the sale and sell a half *** kit thats running entry level after market ICs, on meth, with OEM intake, and 1.6 bar...( or worse, we have a self taught client piecing the car together) go figure...
markski

 

OK what is a WG Rod??? You mean a waste gate rod or is that some brand of con rod???

OK now I will say that no customer makes you give them a less reliable car. And if you do just to earn someone business just on price or on components then you are the foolish one.

As a race shop owner myself I will not sell any of my clients a lesser product if it is going to cause me headaches and come backs down the road, it does me no good and it does them no good either. If a client asks for a product I do not endorse I will tell them that and the reasons why, if they still want it I might sell it to them but there will be terms.

I will tell a story --> An example I have is from this last summer. My shop does a good business selling high end products such as Ohlins, I had two customers that were unwilling to spring for the extra $100 an Ohlins steering damper unit would cost them over another brand. Well the brand they wanted I knew was nothing but trouble and I was not willing to warranty the product like I would an Ohlins unit (which out of the hundreds I have sold I have never seen even a single quality related failure) well one of the Hyper Pro steering dampers came back for service and repair 2 times and the other came back 3. I should never have sold them the units, I would have been better off just telling them to buy it elsewhere --> but I kept other business from leaving and now the both of them know what I was talking about.
So I say let the others sell the half *** junk. I have customers that ship their bikes to me from southern California and I am in Canada.

BTW I am not one of those customers that chase’s cotton candy. I want quality and I that’s it.... So if you are telling me you would sell me a lesser product because that’s what you feel the other people in the market have forced you to do then you have not earned my business, not even if you would say “OH GOODY we'll do this right because that is what you want”. I want a shop that just wants to do it the right way the first time every time. I know that sometimes there is more than one way to skin a cat, but when you are done I just want a quality job that will last.

I understand the aspect of a bigger turbo spinning 1/2 as fast to make the same amount of boost. The reason I like what AWE and GIAC has done with what they call there “700hp kit” is their commitment to saying it is done right. I can imagine there tuning is just spot on and reliable for just that kit and that amount of power. They have actually told me it is and they will stand behind that fact; I followed it up with "what if I want to make more horse power later on" their reply was buy someone else’s product. There was no double talk, no salesman speak, just a confidence that what they had was a very well put together refined package that would not blow a motor up just for the sake of a number.

I know from being in the performance world that many performance shops generic tunes are just that. All too often what Markski is claiming about the home tuner guys is also all to true about the performance shops out there. Yes they may have pieced together some quality pieces but they lack the resources and sophistication to take care of the small details that really matter.

At the end of the day I want a nice broad smooth power that idles right, fuels right, starts when hot or cold and that will last. All this should be wrapped in a composed comfortable suspension and handling package with a killer set of brakes. Yeah telling someone their street car blew up because they got bad gas is not a job well done.

Can any of the tuners here that have been chiming in on this thread actually tell me they have the ability to tune the Bosch system properly so that it runs well under a broad range of conditions ---> RPM, Temp, whatever’s!!!

Educate me as to what you would use and why; and what I will end up with. I know when I build a race bike I have definate reasons for using different components and I can tell you why.
I am not a Porsche Guru so I do not always know what brand name is synonimus with quality with certain parts.;
Such as who makes a dam good intercooler. Etc Etc Etc... I can tell you that any p car I do buy will likely have a set of Gold Brembos bolted to it and a nice Ackrapovic full Ti exhaust. Why because I know the quality of those individual components... The stuff I am uncertain of is stuff like suspension brands, control arms and links, intercoolers, which turbo will give you what, are there different models of the TIAL Alpha-28 turbos???

 

WG rod means wastegate rods.. yes...

On the contrary, I sell high quality hand built parts.. nothing is from China... you can look at my website... my fuel kit uses the most expensive fuel line... I cnc .5" exhaust and header flanges... nothing is from overseas...my CI endtanks are not molded in Asia nor the cores come from cheap low grade supplier... I do not use Ebay aluminum piping that I can get for $65 vs $170.. etc..
I was just expressing my thoughts of the market and how I get questioned for my conservatism (HP) wise...

 

Well, not to muddy the waters further, but the full Akrapovic 996TT Ti exhaust costs $10,000 (+/-), and is quite unpopular as a result. By comparison, excellent choices can be had instead from 911 Tuning, Speedtech, Switzer, Europipe, etc... for much less. To top that off, OEM 996TT Porsche brakes are made by Brembo and are already excellent.

So, for the products you don't need help with, you're proposing what many folks around here would consider a waste of around sixteen thousand dollars. YMMV, of course.

 

Well the 10g for the exhaust is normal retail. My buying power on the Akra stuff is one of the reasons I would consider the system. I have a few friends in high places within Akrapovic so that is my likely direction just because of that. I do get what you mean by the price tag making it a system that few people would buy.

As per upgrading the brakes on these things. Many people on this site do it all the time. My car will see the track on a frequent basis so I think they are a good buy.

So many memebers here are into the drag race set ups. I would rather have very healthy power and great handleing and brakes for the track.

 

You don't need as you know big hp at a road course. On the contrary you do need it at the 1/4 mile or 60 to 130. Each owner is different and uses the car to his liking. But hp is what Porsche seems to be after. They are making them faster and faster.
One will spend $15k on suspension another $6k on Turnos alone. Different means to the same result- satisfaction.

 

Maybe don't need but yes it is loads of fun!

As far as stock brakes for a track car, mine work great, upgraded pads and fliud flushed regularly I never had issues.

 

Engine Guy. Where are you located?