I'll take that any day.

I do not understand this at all... Are you also in the camp - $100k GT-R's are for people who can't afford $100k Porsches?

What was I right about in my statements? I made no factual statement, nor opinion, other than compare my '09 to '12 GT-R (not any other car).

I have no idea what your point was to me. Please explain.

Have you seen all those records broken by a stock GT-R?

 

Personally I'll take a 2012 ZR1. 7:19.63.

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/06/09/2...its-ring-time/

 

So sticky tires and nannies makes the car faster?

Revolutionary.

No doubt, though, that car is flat out beast... Maybe if this technology were to carry over to all 'Vettes, we'd see less accidents happen while driving in a straight line (re: Thanksgiving race).

 

That race was just flat bad driving. My C5 and C6 were great cars. Love the 996TT, but respect the C6.

 

I would take the GTR over the Vette .... just my opinion the vette is brutal but the GTR is a techno marvel it's really like driving a big video game or toy.... and it does a lot of things really well from acceleration to handling and braking, it's a big car you can really feel it's size... for a quick connected, and visceral driver's stint through the backroads or hill country I would use the GT2 though, it's such a drivers car but it's a lot of fucus, with the GTR you can have fun and not have to worry about the car trying to kill you haha!

 

I don't get why people obsess over all this stuff, unless your racing competitively and your car is race ready anyway whats the difference?

if one car can make a lap 2 seconds or 3 seconds faster then another car over a 7 minute period of time, does this really sway you on which car you want to purchase?

Its not like if you were put on that same track, with the same car that they ran the fastest lap in, you would come remotely close to matching it. (generally speaking, that includes me too!)

 

I know... It's only funny because it happens so often, and it always gets on the 'net somehow. I enjoyed the C5 for a couple years. And I still want a C6.
This is what attracts a few GT-R buyers. Have fun when you want to, without becoming a spectacular youtube video.
I agree with this, and I have no doubt that many others here do as well.

If you want to know who disagrees - just look at the - GT-R 'Ring time is 7xx, Ferrari first production-based car under 7minutes, LF-A 7:xx, ZR-1 'Ring time, etc, etc, etc...

It's bragging rights. I know that without a doubt the benefit of the GT-R's engineering is that more drivers can extract more out of the car than just about any other (if not all others). Meaning, that if a professional driver can get 1:00 in any production car, the average GT-R owner will get closer to that time than any other owner in their own cars. This is no credit to the driver, but rather the engineers at Nissan. Whether or not it is more fun, as sunir pointed out, is up to the driver.

 

I have driven all three of the big players; the 996 GT2 that I just sold, the Nissan GTR and I owned a ZO6 and have driven the ZR1... I have also driven all of them at Laguna Seca on identical tyres and here's my take:

The GTR is a marvel of modern electronics but it's WAAAAAY too heavy.. after 3 hard laps, it's toast.. I literally destroyed my buddy's by driving consistent 1:41's in heavy traffic on Hoosiers for 10 laps.. the brakes were cooked (and I wasn't even braking hard) and his transmission showed some fault light ... Quite fast, but horrible, numb steering, wallowing when pushed.. at the limit, it really doesn't give much feedback.. generally it makes a great street car, but don't push it at the track for too long.

The Corvettes are amazing for the money... Fast, but flawed.. The interiors are not up to snuff; probably the worst seats in any vehicle ever. Massive performance, but the ZR1 also gets pretty hot after some fast laps at the track.. At Laguna, I loved the massive power of the ZR1, but it has traction issues coming out of the corners (especially turn 11 and turn 6) even on Hoosiers.. great brakes, good feedback, massive midcorner grip....generally I liked it a lot; the power makes me giggle like a freaking schoolgirl..

My 996 GT2 was leagues better than both in terms of fit, finish, interior and even though down on power to both, it just smoked the GTR in every way... it's lighter, brakes better, has more grip, handles better and more inportantly for me, it NEVER, EVER gets hot even after being driven to the limit for 25 laps, then gassed up and hot lapped for anothe 25 laps... both the other cars would literally self destruct with that kind of treatment.. the Porsche??? just lapped it up and didn't run any hotter at any point than it does on a Freeway jaunt at 70 mph. It laughs at abuse.

All three are great cars and each will appeal to a different type of person.... The GT2 is a stunning, difficult, challenging car where the only thing that counts is the driver.. no aids, no nannies, nothing to save you when you screw up.. although less powerful than the other two, it carries more straightaway speed than the GTR due to the GTR being a fat bastard and having to haul it's butt up the hill between turn 11 and turn 2 and the same but worse between turn 6 and the corkscrew.

The ZO6 and ZR1 are the best bang for the buck out there and they too are real driver's cars, with a demand that you know what you are doing at the limit.

I rank the 996 GT2 as the most involving, most demanding car I have ever driven and by far the best of the three for pounding out fast laps on the edge of sanity. The Corvettes are next and the Nissan GTR a very distant last.. Just too uninvolving, numb and heavy for what I want ot to do....The Audi R8 is a far better car than the GTR, even if it doesn't have the GTR's outright pace.. I drove one during a three day Audi race school at Infineon and the 6 speed version was really good (but understeered at the limit).. the paddle shifter version was just as good, but a little less involving, yet 3/4 of a second faster than the 6 speed.


I understand that some GTR owners will take offense and come back with some nonsense about how the GTR can be made to put out 1400 AWHP and can be modded to do XY and Z, but the GT2 and the 'Vettes are just better drivers cars as they stand; not withstanding the GTR's Nurburgring lap times which are utterly outside the norm and are not reflected on any other track in the World, it's just not a great drivers car.. it's just not; it's fast, but in a very Playstation kind of way.

No doubt jaspergtr will have a fit and challenge me to a Texas Mile race or similar, but the GTR's I run into at the tracks locally like Laguna, Infineon, Thunderhill etc are decidedly spanked by the 'Vettes, GT3's and GT2's as well as the Vipers.. Look at any of the Club racing results and the facts speak for themselves.

By the way, if it consoles you any jaspertgtr, I do think the GTR is a FASTER car than the 996 TT; I don't particularly gel with the TT's with their 4wd and extra weight and the mushy suspension.

Disclaimer: This is my personal opinion and therefore anyone who disagrees with me is wrong, since they cannot know my personal tastes, preferences and likes in a car... Furthermore, I grew up racing shifter Karts and two stroke 500cc Motorcycles back home in Scotland and that MAY have screwed up my perspective on things; even my racing buddies think I have a screw loose and I also ride my 196 RWHP BMW S1000RR to work every day, even in the rain and this further emphasises the fact that I may not be quite right in the head..... PLUS, I played Rugby at the national level back home on Scotland and may have taken too many knocks to the head, along with drinking WAAAAY too much beer....

 

yeah me neither. obviously i cant tell if anyone here is obsessed with couple seconds but it appears to be more of bragging rights.

 

The GTR is an amazing car, no doubt.
But, I think a Porsche is not only about lap times, it's the whole package.

 

Still 10 seconds short of the Viper but viper is far from a daily driver.

 

Investment means it appreciates, look at the low mile cars, some almost to 200k in less than a year, still a few for sale? Depreciable asset is more like it. Carrera GT would be much closer to an "investment."

 

In my 1st post I mentioned the GTR needs 3 seconds. 3 seconds is a life time in racing. 3 seconds is almost a 1/4 mile from a dead stop in NHRA. But it's more than 3 seconds. It’s the love of a car for most of us that started at a very early age. It's the stares and questions you get in parking lots and gas stations. It's the thumbs up and smiles you get driving in the city. It's the feeling of elation when you go through a corner and hit the straight away.
It's the knowledge that your Porsche has a history and pedigree that few other cars in the world have. It's knowing the car only needs the word “Turbo“on the tail and people know exactly what it is. For most is the perfect balance of style, sophistication, engineering, performance, art, and function.

As good as the GTR is and will become it will be very long time if ever it has those intangibles of a Porsche 911. Maybe if Porsche stops making cars there will be the same feelings that I described. This isn't a knock on the GTR, it's just my opinion.

 

+1.

3 seconds on the ring by a pro driver; means nothing (and I would dare to say) to all of us on this board.

 

Here is the rule:

f1 driver: 90% car / 10% driver

pro driver: 70-80%car / 20-30% driver

good driver (thinks he is the best, most of us here): 70% driver / 30% car

average driver (doesn’t really matter)

bad driver: should stay home watch tv!