I know they are small and not exactly favored by all, but being the kind of guy who likes low end and mid-range response (relative to larger turbochargers), I still feel these might be worth considering. I do have a few questions though...hoping someone can help. I did send the same types of questions to a turbo upgrader, but haven't received a reply yet.

1. Any loss of low-end and midrange power and response (relative to stock K16)?
2. Typical HP and TQ gains expected on a pump gas tune at 1.0 BAR?
3. Any good before/after comparisons of them on a dyno graph (versus stock)?
4. Would a conservative reflash work with K16-16Gs, even temporarily, or is it wildly unsafe?
5. Would a stock clutch have any chance at all of lasting a while if not driven exceedingly hard and not launched? I've heard that hard hitting smaller turbos can actually be harder on clutches.

Don't worry, I'm assuming that the reflash wouldn't work well on K16s and that the clutch is required, but just curious what others have seen. Thanks all.

 

Just do it... you will never think the same again... my 996 went thru 7 different turbo combos... lol why are worried about entry level upgrade... you will love it... a good tune with good wastegates and a 5 bar is the key... not to mention good new plugs and maybe coils... check for boost leaks after install and enjoy... the clutch may last depending on miles and abuse....
markski

 

Steve,
A few quick responses based on my experience with them:

I ran an EBC so I could adjust boost but at 1.0 bar while i was checking the tune, the logs and 60-130s were very similar to regular ol' K16s at 1.0 bar. They really began to shine over the K16s at 1.2-1.3bar (and up of course). No loss in response. EPL has some great before and after dynos but they ran ~1.3 bar (perfectly safe on pump with the timing they run). My stock clutch held up fine until I started launching it to log some 0-60s -you should be ok for a while assuming your clutch is in good shape. Like Markski said, you will want additional fueling to run them safely (and the boost leak check after install!).

or...just do it! (its a slippery slope)

 

Hey Marksi...thanks for your reply. I'm not worried about entry level turbos, I only said that because I know most guys here go with larger setups right off the bat. I was hoping that at least a few people remembered about good old K16-16Gs since I hardly see them discussed anymore. Thank you for the tips about wastegates and a 5 bar FPR, etc. I know that comprehensively done modifications tend to be more enjoyable overall, and not to skimp on the details (hard habit to break when you're on a budget though!).

Thanks a lot earl. I particularly appreciate the notes about how they behave at lower boost pressures since it sounds like you can only take advantage of them (relative to stock K16s) once boost pressures go up. This is similar to other OEM sized turbo upgrades I'm familiar with though, so I don't think it's unexpected. It would be nice to keep my stock clutch around for a little while or else my 2013 season is going to be a LOT more expensive than I planned, but I do like to know what is possible too. I appreciate it.

My ultimate goal for my 996TT is to run about 550 whp on pump gas, and I suspect that this is well beyond the limits of what even the newer billet K16s can do, so I suppose I'll have to give real thought into either doing a smaller step or going right after my end goal. I appreciate the feedback.

 

I love my billet k16's. TONS of low end power and there is very little lag. Granted I've never driven a stock k16 996 but I can't imagine the billet K16's would noticably increase lag.

I have the AMS billet K16's, EPL tuning and fueling and a Spec 2+ clutch. I put down right under 500awhp on EPL's mustang dyno. That was with 93 oct (no meth injection), stock intercoolers, stock inlet pipes and catless stock exhaust. It was dynoed in July/August, so that wasn't 30 degree ambient temp numbers either. With w/m injection and/or 997.2 I/C's and an aftermarket exhaust I think I could probably hit 550awhp. Although that's probably the most power I'd feel comfortable pushing through the Spec 2+.

 

My K16 car was a strong 600 hp car with many associated mods, pump gas and no meth.

It was originally built by AMS but it has undergone other upgrades since then.

The cars with K16 billet's are very friendly useable cars.
http://www.amsperformance.com/cart/A...-Upgrades.html

I myself would not go 5 bar FPR, do 72lb injectors and keep the stock fpr.

 

All I can say is that Engine Guy says his car was still pulling at 223 mph with that set-up..
They have to be a great all around turbo then.

 

doubt that, you need inlets and some others to hit 550 whp consistently (without meth)



OP. these turbos have literally no lag and will be beyond night and day difference, my billet AMS 16s are coming off shortly if you are interested.

 

I appreciate the discussion, thanks a lot to all who have posted. Lennon31987, I'll prepare a PM for you with some specific questions. Thanks!

 

sure thing, am here to help. let me know how i can.

 

Very good to know! whats in store?!

I think you should not only look at peak HP #'s but power curves to see when and how long those #s are sustained.

 

Since my 16G was having a bit leakage, I have had them to rebuild couple weeks ago.

Before that, I thought they are not that strong(I bought 2nd hand) but I'm wrong. I spin both 1st and 2nd gear now, it does surprise me the 16G is stronger than I imagine. For smaller track, at least for my rookie driving skill, it is a bit over-power now, I need a set of GT2 brake for sure.

And I did rolling vs a 997TT tip with exhaust and a tune, I pull away for around 1 car length from 0-100, tried 4 or 5 times and having the same result.

VS my buddy's GTR, which around 560-580 fwhp, rolling without gear change we are almost head to head, but it pull away a car length if starting from 0.

 

Thank you for your feedback. I do prize a meaty powerband so the allure of the K16-16G is pretty strong. The performance you speak of is about what I'm after too, in terms of next performance steps for my car.

I'm still left a bit puzzled how they differ from the K16 billets though, so will read a bit more. I seem to be able to find K16 billets for about $2500 on the second-hand market but could have a fresh set of K16-16Gs for about $1200-$1400 including my K16 cores.

 

The small Mitsubishi 16g wheel is heavier than the billets such as the Borg Warner 2283 and HTA 68 7 blade but for the airflow requirements on a mild 996tt, its probably a wash. You need to size the compressor based on engine airflow requirements at appropriate pressure ratios, not vice versa -I chuckle when I see 48 lb/min HTA wheels stuffed into K16 based turbos -you'll notice the cars aren't any faster. Basic cast 16g's have gone well under 7 secs 60-130 and trapped over 133mph -haven't seen a billet K16 top that. That said, BW 2283s wheels (or 2280) aren't that much more expensive than Mitsu small 16g's -most of the cost is in the machining & labor. With the small difference you get a lighter wheel and a slightly broader compressor map which MAY improve longevity and give you slightly more room to grow. The HTA wheels are a bit more pricey.

IMO, on a K16 hybrid, the supporting mods are WAY more important than the actual compressor -so long as the wheel upgrade/rebuild is done properly.

 

Hey that's great information...I appreciate it earl3!