In my opinion, this set up is not needed for a 500whp track car... you can leave the stock ducks in place... I have been way farther in this IC stuff then some tend to believe.. and many moons before a many even had a AM IC as we welded 2 996 gt2 ICs together... etc.. I played alot with this stuff..

However, if you want to know some history... go back to 2004 european car magazine write up of the "Clash of the Titans" shoot out... and guess which car won? one with fenderwell intakes and filters above ICs... it was a dyno, braking, 1/4 mile, and ROAD COURSE test.. and this is 10 years ago... most of the US tuners were there...
One measures IC quality on a 500 hp car at a track... I measure IC quality on everything from 500 to 1200hp.. and that is a huge challenge... thus discrediting such achievements as in a 1/4 mile as you did does not serve justice in my opinion... mind you, only 3 996 tts went 9s and maybe 5 total trapped 150 plus... and if you think that its not a challenge then your simply wrong.. stand at the light for a couple minutes to get your turn.. then run a 9 sec. at 150 plus... things do heat very fast at 30 psi with a set of GT35rs...
here is the article...
best
markski

http://www.europeancarweb.com/featur...he_comparison/

 

Mark I believe the data that my Motec system collects on my mile runs not some 1/4 mile or dyno pull from cold. I also have the highest independently tested car here. I just backed up my 1288 pull in North Carolina @ roushyates performance smoothing out my boost controller. Side note I set the record for highest wheel hp car on that dyno. And you guessed it my air cleaners are right next to my headers.. Sucking hot air. The outlet temps on my turbos are over 350f and my 3.5'' cores do their thing. I make real power proven on many different dyno's. There is more to come data wise and I will be hitting the 1/4 this spring now that they can not kick me out for no cage, so slips will be shown.

 

personally, I would believe data logs from a motor that has sensors in the appropriate places over a 9sec 1/4 mile run. An aftermarket IC with enough aluminum mass to absorb heat will do wonders with very little airflow. To make your 9sec run analogy valid, I would say turn around at the end of the track and do a 9sec run back to back with no break. Lets see how well ANY IC will react. That would be a more realistic test.


These cars that do 1 mile + runs or road course work, need airflow. You cannot tell me by adding anything into the air duct (therefore displacing a part of a very calculated space) is a good idea.


Think of it this way, what cylinder head would flow better(keeping porting the same) - a 5mm valve stem or a 9mm valve stem..


discuss..

 

Exactly. Without air ducting the inercooler is nothing but a heatsink which could work to dissipate heat on the first 1/4 mile run many moons ago. Its common sense that sticking a big filter in front of it will block airflow. Need the ducting plain and simple, check out the new AMS units for example. Just like you said there is a venturi effect that actually pulls the air out from the lower bumper openings.

but what do you mean its been proven to run one 9 second pass 10 years ago ?

 

That all makes perfect sense and does work with the intercooler duct work .
I believe one of the Big Dogs members disputed that in the past and was talking about running fans on the intercoolers?

 

Define "does work".. Work for a 9 sec pass or from an engineering standpoint?


Something tells me that if Porsche was going to run an air filter in front of the IC, the ducting would be very different.

 

I agree with what pwdrhound and prodigymb stated on the principal of the duct work ..

 

I think this is the critical element that some people miss, or don't give enough weight/importance to.

My simplistic, non-professional educated guess is that the venturi caused by the upper and lower ductwork working in tandem is vital to maintaining adequate airflow across the core as speeds increase.

If you delete the ductwork, it's my belief that the airflow on the entry-side of the ICs might "stack up" to some degree causing a mass of air that might've otherwise passed through the IC, instead flow past the side vent and behind the car. Think about the 996TT as you view it from the front - not much of a natural "ram-air" effect into the IC body vents, so the high/low pressure suction drawing air into the side-vents is badly needed, and moreso as speeds go up. Again, though, that's just an educated guess...

 

And this is why my rear bumper is back on. The data does not lie.

 

[QUOTE=Tim941NYC;4066472]Mark I believe the data that my Motec system collects on my mile runs not some 1/4 mile or dyno pull from cold. I also have the highest independently tested car here. I just backed up my 1288 pull in North Carolina @ roushyates performance smoothing out my boost controller. Side note I set the record for highest wheel hp car on that dyno. And you guessed it my air cleaners are right next to my headers.. Sucking hot air. The outlet temps on my turbos are over 350f and my 3.5'' cores do their thing. I make real power proven on many different dyno's. There is more to come data wise and I will be hitting the 1/4 this spring now that they can not kick me out for no cage, so slips will be shown.[/QUOTE

With Your motec you can squeeze a lot of power and kudos to you for making it work. Thumbs up.
I'm reading over this nonsense some are posting and I can't believe some of the arguments especially when it's just speculation nothing more. Some of us actually have done it over and over. I have a 6" brick Ic and it trapped 155. With a big bmc air filter. Hmm no spray no meth no e85 and if still ran 119 plus is 1/8th. Most of the big hp cars are running filters either on ics or on the turbos. I am not saying that 1/4 is the only true measurement that this approach works or not. I'm actually not even debating. All I can say is that a the stuff works and works well if you know what your doing. Enough with the "Venturi " effect lol I'm about to take some popcorn out. Why don't some of you guys get in some of these cars that have the set ups and see for your self. You may change your mind really quick.
But to restate my point - I don't see anything wrong with a oem approach and I'm far from a aero dynamics engineer to say otherwise. But to discredit the countless achievements on the fender well approach be it true dyno numbers , 60 to 130s, 1/4 and 1 mile , is simply nonsense because there are way too many cars out there doing it.
Markski

 

I got the "popcorn" out a long time ago...lol

 

Its kinda a fact that at speed the air pulls from bottom of the openings. Just because ducting doesnt work with your ginormous coolers doesnt mean that all others should forget about using it, its a simple effective concept really.

1 drag pass is hardly backup for a claim that "IC ducting useless".

 

please quote the nonsense? If you are not an engineer, why would you discredit others on this board? Seriously, this is the only place where a 9 sec time slip trumps physics???


OTHER than a time slip, can you provide some proof that your IC works.

Do you actually have date that supports the fact that air is passing through your restricted IC ductwork or are you hoping you have enough aluminum mass to absorb heat for a 9 second run?

 

My friend, Randy ran a 4.7 60 to 130 I believe on my 3.5s( no brick mass) and made 800 plus whp... simple as that... I ran the 1/4 with 4.5s... now am playing with 6" because I can... not sure what your deal is as this is not a discussion about my ICs... so stop hating...

Call Proto, Switzer, or BBI if I cant convince you... or simply make a separate thread asking who online here has good numbers be it dyno and or slips with the intakes on ICs and that goes for both 996 and 997s... Im sure the guys will come out of woodwork...
As far as a 9 sec slip, a many have tried over and over, even spent hundreds of thousands of dollars attempting... if you think a 9 sec slip is not meaningful then you are out of your mind... ask yourself why is there only a couple P cars that did it and hundreds have tried...
give me 2 months as Im sorting my trans out.. Ill show you a 160mph 1/4 and some serious 9s maybe then you will believe.. figures don't lie.. but liars figure...

edit: at no point have I said that the OEM approach is inferior to fenderwell intakes.. I don't even recommend it for 600whp cars... no need.. I simply stated that it works well when done write and it is not for everyone... mind you, you give someone scientific proof then they turn around and want physical proof.. and vice versa... you cant convince someone who has his mind set from beginning... thus I dont even try... Im here to share my experience not sell you parts... and I have no reason to lie or argue ...

 

I run Mafless tune from Protomotive and HTA3076.

I found a place for the air filters with fresh air between the factory air ducts and the body.

Check the photo