Just had a PPI done at the local dealer on a 29K '03 996TT that I'm looking at.

They also included a screen print (see attachment) of ignitions/overrevs.

Svc Tech said car has been babied based on the #s.

Can anyone comment ?

PPI also turned up a bad horn, wonky headlight, and more importantly, coolant leaking onto the engine from the oil cooler. Apparently they have to drop the engine to fix ($$$$).

Thanks.

 

It's not been babied, but rather driven pretty hard as it's seen a lot of red lining. That's not to say its a bad thing. The type 2 revs are very low (those are the bad ones). It looks like the only type 2 revs were recently achieved probably due to an aggressive test drive. I would say that recent type 2 revs are bad as you don't know if any damage was done, but the number is so low that it should not be a problem. A turbo with 37 type 2 revs is not easy to find, but it's sure been driven as the type 1's are high.

My point of reference is my boxster with 50k miles. It had 13k type 1 revs. I redlined it every time if drove it. So a car with 29k miles and 19k type 1 revs must have either been tracked, driven in low gear frequently, or flogged all the time.

As long as you are pricing in the oil cooler fix you should be fine. Post some pics when you're done. Make sure there is no boost leaks when it's put back together. Consider pinning the coolant pipes since you are dropping the motor. Good luck!

 

i would not worry ! i have seen 40000+ type 2 rev ! car in perfect condition running strong
i would worry about noise coming from transmission, (2nd gear pop out) or suspicious engine noise , misfire ,check engine, overall paint and interior condition,cold start up,brake etc...
these cars are made to be floored

 

the type two's ( 39!? ) are so low as to be insignificant, truly.

the leaking coolant otoh is not. don't buy a car leaking coolant that isn't from a radiator.

 

i have thousands of type twos as well and still puts an easy 550hp to the ground

these cars are made to be floored hooned and thrashed

996 Turbos are 10+ years old they have troubles if u want no troubles buy a 991 Turbo

 

preach brother

 

Thanks guys.

I do understand that leaking coolant is a (big) issue here. From my point of view, it's not my problem to fix, it's on the owner to get it sorted out, and sorted out immediately. I would not buy this car without the coolant leak 100% addressed in advance of the transaction...there's no telling what else they'll find when they drop the engine and I am not willing to be on the hook for a car with this type of known (and unknown) coolant issue.

Providing the current owner is willing to have the dealer or indy shop drop the engine to replace the oil cooler and address the coolant leak (with Porsche OEM parts), would you still recommend I pass on this one?

They're looking for mid to high $40s due to 2 local owner 30K mile history. Plus the car needs tires, so that's another $1500 I'd need to shell out.

 

Coolant leaking into the motor is never good, I'd pass on that. Your rings are iron (compression, top 2) and any time coolant, heat and iron mix, you get oxidation or rust. The iron oxide may not be friendly to the sealing surfaces of the cylinder and ring interface. If this was caught extremely early on it may not be a problem. If it has been leaking a very small amount and getting progressively worse for a long time it could be a wear issue for a long time even if the leak is fixed. Bearings in the motor don't do well with coolant in the mix either and it can reek havoc with the lubricating properties of the motor oil.

This is my opinion in general as a motor builder. There could be differences in the TT that I'm not aware of for better or worse. Maybe one of the Porsche specific techs will offer an opinion. I'd pass.

 

Just to clarify, this is an external coolant leak onto the engine, not into the engine and thus no coolant and oil are mixing.

the Svc Tech mentioned that the 996TTs oil cooler's coolant lines do not intersect nor can they contaminate engine oil.

 

any leak of coolant that isn't radiator related is too labor intensive an issue ( whatever or wherever it might emanate from ) for them to address simply to meet the request of a potential buyer.

then hi 40's is also what one would expect to pay for a NO issue car. personally i would walk. there are just too many of these to be found.

you're a knowledgeable buyer, keep looking you'll find the right car. my hunch is this one isnt it.

 

My tech buddies tell me they like to see at least an hour's engine run time after an overrev event with the engine not exhibiting any signs of trouble.

The Type ! over revs are rather high but the rev limiter limits these so no engine damage can occur. The number does suggest the car has been tracked or if not tracked driven rather aggressively on the road.

If the car road tests well that may not be a concern.

A wonky headlight might be a bad bulb: Approx. $150 (all prices are "dealer" prices). Or it might be a bad starter/igniter/ballast whatever the thing is called and this runs nearly $1K. If the housing is bad this can run nearly $2K.

If the leak is from a bad oil cooler that is not the end of the world. However, if the diagnosis proves to be wrong then run away. Leaks from the engine proper are not good.

However, if the diagnosis proves to be correct it could indicate problems down the road. If corrosion has taken out the oil cooler then you have to think about the radiators (3 of them) and heater core possibly manifesting leaks at some point in the future.

More immediately is the water pump.

So, while the car is in the air with the engine out give that water pump a close inspection. And the RMS. (Note: to view this the engine/transmission have to be separated.) (Also note, that both the water pump and RMS developed leaks in my 03 Turbo.)

Check the clutch hardware. The disc thickness new is 1.7mm. Worn is 0.3mm. Even if the disc and the rest of the hardware is ok the clutch control shaft should be fitted with new needle bearings.

I have to end with that anything a car salesman tells you is intended to get you to buy the car as soon as possible and to pay as much for the car as possible.

This includes anything the seller will do to the car to lock in a sale.

An engine drop is a big expense even for a dealer. Even though the dealer has to pay the tech out of its own pocket, and even though it doesn't pay tech anywhere near the $150/hour it charges for the tech's time, he foregoes the tech making him $150/hour working on another car, so even though the dealer gets the tech's time a discount, and the parts at a discount too, it still costs the dealer money.

That the dealer is willing to do this and without any pushback suggests there's something else about the car that could make it a bad buy and the dealer is willing to do this work hoping that you will still buy the car and possibly miss finding the other issues.

Granted I may be just a bit too paranoid for my own good, but still, it is just out of character for a dealer to just agree to drop a Turbo engine to replace a leaking oil cooler with no pushback, not even one "they all do that."

 

Thanks Macster (and everyone else) for your insightful replies. I've been reading/lurking here for a few months in order to build up my knowledge base before buying a car and you guys are awesome...

To further clarify, I sent this particular 2003 996TT to the local Porsche dealer for the $350 PPI, they are not the sellers of the car. That being said, the current owner did buy the car there as a 9K mile PPO car back in '07. After the PPI was completed, I asked the dealer to give me some worst case estimates to replace headlight, horn, and fix coolant leak--I wanted to at least know what the current owner's exposure was.

And it's his exposure, not mine, he certainly can't build the cost of repairs back into the deal, well, at least not any deal that I'm involved in.

And to further complicate matters, the car is actually being sold on consignment by a small local dealer that specializes in euros/sportscars, so I'm not even speaking directly with the owner.

The consignment shop did balk a bit at the $4K estimate to drop the engine to fix the leaky oil cooler, and mentioned that they wanted a second opinion. In the end, the current owner of the car will pay to drop the engine and fix the coolant leak if they're wanting to sell to me.

No way will we subtract an 'estimated' amt. off the sale and then fix on my own time and nickel, there's simply way too much exposure there...this car is presently NOT my problem nor do I want to take on someone's else's unknown issues and make it my problem.

In addition, I have several service records going back a half dozen years, and cannot find any indication that coolant has been changed. Perhaps a bigger red flag indeed...?

So here's the dilemma: The seller (and consignment dealer) obviously want to spend as little as possible to fix the car...whether or not I'm the buyer. Based on the education I've gotten here on 6Speed, I have a ballpark idea of what the car is worth in excellent condition (needs no mechanical work), which is mid $40s. Thinking this through, unless they step up and do all the required work to bring the car to 100%, I'm not the right buyer. You guys can take credit for the education and insistence on the PPI, if that wasn't $350 well spent I don't know what is.

 

I agree with your approach.

With regards to coolant servicing, you wouldnt see any as porsche views it lasting the life of the vehicle and does not require it changed in any interval.

 

^ i agree except to say that no fluid is "lifetime" unless you simply neglect to change it. porsche has some very puzzling fluid change interval recommendations in their guides.

mr king, your position on this is justifiably prudent. if the leak isn't repaired and warrantied prior to your closing a deal on this car, just find another. don't buy a headache.

the other stuff is minor and shouldn't factor heavily in your decision to buy or not. though bulbs as macster has pointed out are costly. though it's probably just the 20$ headlamp switch. good luck. if well maintained these cars have great integrity and they're fast all getout. just find the right one, and perhaps this one is it. but get em to fix the leak

 

If the leak is fixed properly the other issues seem manageable so go for it.