Upgraded aero and brakes for 996tt
#181
See if the wheel manufacturer can knurl the wheel bead on the wheels they are building for you. It'll keep the tire from slipping on the rim. If it was me Fadi, I would try to fit a 680 rear as it is designed as a proper rear tire application on Cup cars vs the 660 which is a front, albeit used on the rear by many. If I recall, the 996Cup originally has 660 rears but pca mandated the taller 680 as they had a number of failures of the 660s, probably when running on an oval. Since you're doing all the custom work anyway, might be worth it.
Last edited by pwdrhound; 03-12-2017 at 06:53 PM.
#182
Here it is Fadi. This is what we are using. These are the front tension bolts with the custom ABS pick up rings. By varying the amount of teeth (48 is OEM) on the ring we can run what ever front/rear tire diameters and fool the ABS into thinking that the diameters are exactly what the ABS is programmed for. In the case of the TT the ABS is expecting the fronts to be basically the same diameter as rears. When I ran the stock ABS with a 0.9" larger rears, I think I was on the ragged edge of what the ABS would put up with. There is naturally certain range of tolerance in the ABS to account for tire wear but it has limits. For optimum performance staying close to the stock ratio is always best.
For example, on a 996GT3 where the factory tires are basically the same front to rear, we found the ABS would tolerate up to 0.9" larger rears. With 25.5/26.4" tall tires the ABS still worked pretty well. When the split however was increased by running 996Cup sizes (25.5/26.9) the ABS would go into ice mode at speed under hard braking. By decreasing the amount of teeth on the front ABS pick up ring to 46, we can get the ratio back to what the ABS is happy with and run Cup tires on a regular 6GT3. On my car, on the other hand, a 49 tooth ring is appropriate because the ABS is programmed for a 0.9-1.5" larger rear but I'm now running a 0.6" larger rear (used to run a 1" larger rear). The extra tooth thus brings the ratios into the range the ABS is programmed for.
The outer ABS pick up ring is bolted to the OEM GT2 tension bolt (which has the OEM toothed ring machined off) and can be swapped with everything on the car.
For example, on a 996GT3 where the factory tires are basically the same front to rear, we found the ABS would tolerate up to 0.9" larger rears. With 25.5/26.4" tall tires the ABS still worked pretty well. When the split however was increased by running 996Cup sizes (25.5/26.9) the ABS would go into ice mode at speed under hard braking. By decreasing the amount of teeth on the front ABS pick up ring to 46, we can get the ratio back to what the ABS is happy with and run Cup tires on a regular 6GT3. On my car, on the other hand, a 49 tooth ring is appropriate because the ABS is programmed for a 0.9-1.5" larger rear but I'm now running a 0.6" larger rear (used to run a 1" larger rear). The extra tooth thus brings the ratios into the range the ABS is programmed for.
The outer ABS pick up ring is bolted to the OEM GT2 tension bolt (which has the OEM toothed ring machined off) and can be swapped with everything on the car.
#183
it never ends with you lol - very interesting and informative!. I am running 245-645 and 325-660 Pirelli's so I am right at the .75" difference which should be good with stock ABS. I am worried about the rains (although they are supposed to be the same size they look different). I also got the GT2/3 uprights so will be upgrading coils as well at some point. Enjoying this thread keep it going.
Last edited by pwdrhound; 03-11-2017 at 06:50 PM.
#187
See if the wheel manufacturer can knurl the wheel bead on the wheels they are building for you. It'll keep the tire from slipping on the rim. If it was me Fadi, I would try to fit a 680 rear as it is designed as a proper rear tire application on Cup cars vs the 660 which is a front, albeit used on the rear by many. If I recall, the 996Cup originally has 660 rears but pca mandated the taller 680 as they had a number of failures of the 660s, probably when running on an oval. Since you're doing all the custom work anyway, might be worth it.
Asked the manufacturer and their answer was
" We can't make it on the inner/outer lips on stock. We made all our racing wheels without knurling because It's not necessary with the modular 3 pieces aluminum wheels."
Dont know exactly what is better with the 3pcs wheels so they say no need to knurl
#189
Hey Freddy,
This is stuff is made for me by my machine guy. Same guy that did my 300M hubs. He's pretty amazing but stays real busy so I have to plan ahead. In case the moderators are lurking, I AM NOT SELLING ANYTHING!!!.
The rings require a pair of new GT2 tension bolts to be machined down in order for the custom rings to be fitted. You have to be using 996GT2/3/Cup uprights in order to use these so these would not work with the AWD uprights which I believe you are using (unless I'm mistaken). There is a guy on Rennlist that makes custom TT front stub axles. You might contact him to see if he could make some with a different amount of teeth. It's a simple calculation to figure out the optimum number based on tire size. Again, it's generally not an issue unless you stray a good bit from the OEM tire diameter F/R ratio, generally 0.75" or greater based on what we've seen. 95% of TT guys do not fall into this category as most run similar tire diameters. Fadi with his build might be an exception if he tries to run 680 rears...
This is something that might interest you if you end up going to 275 fronts with stock fenders. When you fit 10" wheel with wide tires, at large steering angles (near steering lock) the tires will make contact with the inner fender area where the coolant pipes run and also in the rear inner fender area on the tub. This is due to the fact that the entire wheel assembly is "pushed" further into the wheel well. Do this enough and you will tear stuff up. Lot of GT3 guys run into this problem when they flip their front upper mounts to a motorsport high camber configuration and then realize their front tires tear up the upper air ducts attached to the coolant pipes. This happens even with 245s in some cases. To prevent this, you need to reduce the amount of max steering angle slightly. These are steering angle limiters which will fit on your steering rack shaft on each side and reduce maximum steering rack deflexion thus reducing steering angle by about 1.5" at the tires. These are made out of aluminum with a set screw. Interestingly Porsche used to make steering angle limiters for some of their 964 applications but nothing for the later cars.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/SERpN6]
This is stuff is made for me by my machine guy. Same guy that did my 300M hubs. He's pretty amazing but stays real busy so I have to plan ahead. In case the moderators are lurking, I AM NOT SELLING ANYTHING!!!.
The rings require a pair of new GT2 tension bolts to be machined down in order for the custom rings to be fitted. You have to be using 996GT2/3/Cup uprights in order to use these so these would not work with the AWD uprights which I believe you are using (unless I'm mistaken). There is a guy on Rennlist that makes custom TT front stub axles. You might contact him to see if he could make some with a different amount of teeth. It's a simple calculation to figure out the optimum number based on tire size. Again, it's generally not an issue unless you stray a good bit from the OEM tire diameter F/R ratio, generally 0.75" or greater based on what we've seen. 95% of TT guys do not fall into this category as most run similar tire diameters. Fadi with his build might be an exception if he tries to run 680 rears...
This is something that might interest you if you end up going to 275 fronts with stock fenders. When you fit 10" wheel with wide tires, at large steering angles (near steering lock) the tires will make contact with the inner fender area where the coolant pipes run and also in the rear inner fender area on the tub. This is due to the fact that the entire wheel assembly is "pushed" further into the wheel well. Do this enough and you will tear stuff up. Lot of GT3 guys run into this problem when they flip their front upper mounts to a motorsport high camber configuration and then realize their front tires tear up the upper air ducts attached to the coolant pipes. This happens even with 245s in some cases. To prevent this, you need to reduce the amount of max steering angle slightly. These are steering angle limiters which will fit on your steering rack shaft on each side and reduce maximum steering rack deflexion thus reducing steering angle by about 1.5" at the tires. These are made out of aluminum with a set screw. Interestingly Porsche used to make steering angle limiters for some of their 964 applications but nothing for the later cars.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/SERpN6]
Last edited by pete95zhn; 03-13-2017 at 08:28 AM.
#190
I bought an used steering rack from a 996 RSR few years ago. It arrived with similar spacers which looked like OEM. No 996 or 997 GT3 Cup/R/RSR PET has part number for those, so they might have been from 964/993. Tension bolts with changeable ABS rings is a good idea! Fortunately I have a fabricator nearby who can make a set for me if necessary. Thanks John for tooth number calculations!
Pete, for future reference, each tooth accounts for 2%, or a 0.5" change in tire diameter.
Last edited by pwdrhound; 03-13-2017 at 10:04 AM.
#191
Asked the manufacturer and their answer was
" We can't make it on the inner/outer lips on stock. We made all our racing wheels without knurling because It's not necessary with the modular 3 pieces aluminum wheels."
Dont know exactly what is better with the 3pcs wheels so they say no need to knurl
" We can't make it on the inner/outer lips on stock. We made all our racing wheels without knurling because It's not necessary with the modular 3 pieces aluminum wheels."
Dont know exactly what is better with the 3pcs wheels so they say no need to knurl
[url=https://flic.kr/p/PtW7Jq]
Last edited by pwdrhound; 03-13-2017 at 10:05 AM.
#192
this might interest you fadi. it works with the info that heavychevy was talking about in getting data to learn from
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...m-solo-dl.html
saw it today
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...m-solo-dl.html
saw it today
#193
thanks for the hint, but I am already using vbox sport with its own software + integration with harry's laptimer and gopros. didnt know there is another product like vbox on the market, seems a nice option as seems exaclty like the vbox classic (10Hz gps and integrated display), the sport vbox has 20Hz gps that would be even better for 60-130 100-150 etc but doesnt have any display, iphone has to be used
#194
Vbox sport may give you lap times, but I doubt it gives you the kind of data you need for analyzing to get faster. Quality data will tell you how well you drive the car. Also, the ability to connect to rpm sensors, throttle and braking input are invaluabke tools.
#195
All vbox products log the runs on a SD card and outputs files to be used for analysis.
They have some apps that come for free and one of them is bellow
https://www.vboxmotorsport.co.uk/ind...lysis-software
this app can zoom in any sector of the circuit and do overlays, custom parameters, etc... really useful for circuit guys but also for straight line/ drag racing guys as can calculate 60-130, 60-150 or any custom interval, displaying Gs longitudinal, lateral, braking, etc etc
And remember this is 20HZ GPS sensor so 20 records/second instead of 10records/second for a 10Hz gps device
Smartphones have like 1Hz usually, thats why for a lap time they are close enough, but for instant measurements of speed/Gs the error margin is big.
I like harry's laptimer paired over BT with vboxsport ( vbox still recording on the SD card), sometimes I use an OBD device with harry to have all engine data, sometimes even using Gopro paired with iphone, but if very hot outside the phone will get hot too and switch off sometimes.. that's why I keep it simple most of the time harry lap timer (video from iphone) and gps form vbox and it works nicely
They have some apps that come for free and one of them is bellow
https://www.vboxmotorsport.co.uk/ind...lysis-software
this app can zoom in any sector of the circuit and do overlays, custom parameters, etc... really useful for circuit guys but also for straight line/ drag racing guys as can calculate 60-130, 60-150 or any custom interval, displaying Gs longitudinal, lateral, braking, etc etc
And remember this is 20HZ GPS sensor so 20 records/second instead of 10records/second for a 10Hz gps device
Smartphones have like 1Hz usually, thats why for a lap time they are close enough, but for instant measurements of speed/Gs the error margin is big.
I like harry's laptimer paired over BT with vboxsport ( vbox still recording on the SD card), sometimes I use an OBD device with harry to have all engine data, sometimes even using Gopro paired with iphone, but if very hot outside the phone will get hot too and switch off sometimes.. that's why I keep it simple most of the time harry lap timer (video from iphone) and gps form vbox and it works nicely
Last edited by Fadi; 03-16-2017 at 06:36 AM.