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Upgraded aero and brakes for 996tt

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Old 09-13-2015, 05:35 AM
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Upgraded aero and brakes for 996tt

My car is a 2003 (2004 US) 996tt x50 with the following setup

Gtx2863 turbos A/R .64 Garrett
Tial 44mm external WGs
Headers 911 tuning
Exhaust Cargraphic
Engine mods - pauter rods, raceware studs and cometic headgasket
Light polish of heads
Aqiuamist meth kit
Proto tunes - 91+meth and 100+meth
2x044+Surgetank and big lines
Plex Boost controller
And much more for sure but these are maybe the most important


Transmission&Suspension
GT2RS 1,2,3
Wavetrak LSD
Sachs stage3
KW v3
SwayBars F/R
Numeric SSK


Brakes
OEM rotors and calipers
Fronts - XP20
Rear - XP 8 / to be replaced with XP 20 soon
Castrol SRF


Weight
Carbon Seats
Back seats delete
Rear Window Wiper deleted
SubWoofer removed


Tires
When was RWD was running R888 in gt2 sizes 235/315
Converted recently back to 4wd and running Cups2 225/295
Wheels are OZ Allegerritta 8" / 11" (turbo oem size)
Have also the OEM twists


Looking to improve track performance, feel like the engine is so powerful so no need to address anything in this department, having still plenty of power left appart when I need it. Running now like 1.25bar, might setup boost by gear soon. Been able to setup boost by rpm and work nicely


AERO
here I run full stock, what are our options for some real aero not like OEM ?
not looking for something crazy, but still some huge improvements should be able to do here.

TRANS&SUSPENSION
Do you guys run steel syncros ?
Do you flatshift your cars ?
Might do some upgrades to my gbox

What about oil coolers? Any idea who sells them?

Would like to buy a complete kit to change camber front and back, any advice ?


BRAKES&TIRES
Here I am totally lost... considering 997tt rotors, gt3, girodisc etc... 350mm, 380mm... etc...
Dont know... Not looking for something crazy expensive, might use slicks for the next year and perhaps a 19" wheel if the brakes are too big..

I like the 997 gt3 wheels or otherwise would keep my OZs(might be too narrow in 8"/11" tho)

My front tires get a lot of heat and guess will need much wider tires in front.. 245 or 255 might be perfect.. dont know what tire combo I should use in this case, I run also 4wd but guess if using these very wide tires can convert back to RWD

Guess would need
NEW rotors - maybe 350mm+ or even 380mm
NEW Calipers ????
Brake lines - read about oem gt2 or gt3 are ok and cheap

Then will have to verify if the proposed tire combo will fit wheels and if wheels will fit brakes... huooaaa...

Guess that should be all, thanks for reading
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Old 09-13-2015, 11:38 AM
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Just copied and pasted this out of my car's logbook. You can find the answers to your suspension/brake/gearbox track setup questions below. Good luck...

INTERIOR AND EXTERIOR:
MOTEC Dash/datalogger
996GT2 instrument cluster
Aim Smarty Cam HD.2 w/ ECU bridge
Recaro Profi SPA seats
Schroth harnesses
Rears seat & seatbelt delete
Rear wiper delete
Rear subwoofer delete
996GT2 roof panel (sunroof delete)
996GT2 headliner / interior carpeting
996GT2 front trunk tool tray
Braille 21lb Battery
Tequipment Roll bar
996Cup 63” rear wing
RUF front and rear bumper
RUF mirrors
RUF strut bar
RUF door sills
RUF pedals
RUF wheel studs
RUF intake manifold
RUF turbo intake hoses
RUF shift ****

ENGINE:
Built by Chris Cervelli:
GT3 RSR crank (53mm rod journal)
GT3 RSR oil pump
GT3 RSR bearings
Mahle Motorsport 3.8 liners/pistons (23mm wrist pin)
Pauter rods (993-230-560-1270C)
997GT3 3.8 head gaskets
Todd McKenzie ported heads w/ high rpm valve springs
997GT3RS pulley
996GT3 Cup belt
2.75” hard plastic turbo intake pipes
Unobtainium Welding 3” exhaust w/ 5.2” HJS 100cell race catalysts
UMW 1.3 bar ECU
UMW K16/997GT2 ZC turbos
Motec fuel pump controller
Walbro 450 fuel pump with -6AN fuel supply
OEM ported headers
997.2 GT2RS Intercoolers
964RS engine mounts

TRANSMISSION:
997GT3 transmission mount
Setrab / Mocal transmission cooler (Air to liquid)
997GT2RS 1-3 mainshaft with steel synchros
PMNA 996 CUP shifter
PMNA 996 CUP shifter cables
PMNA 996 CUP selector lever
996GT2 clutch hydraulics
964RS LWFW / Sachs Motorsport 764 PP / 997GT3 RS 4.0 clutch disc
Guard Club Billet 40/60 LSD
RWD

SUSPENSION:
JRZ RS Pro shocks w/ remote canisters & QD
JRZ monoball upper mounts F/R
Eibach ERS springs 1400#F/1500#R
Eibach ERS helper springs 150#F/250#R
PMNA 996GT3 front LCAs w/ 11mm shims
PMNA 997GT3 CUP front monoball ends
PMNA 997GT3 CUP front toe arms w/ bump steer
PMNA 996GT3 CUP front uprights
PMNA 997GT3 RSR rear LCAs w/ 1mm shims
PMNA 997GT3 CUP rear toe arms w/ bump steer
997GT3 rear hubs
997GT3 rear thrust arms
Tarett rear subframe bushings
Tarett rear toe locking kit
Tarret drop links F/R
996GT3 front 5 way sway bar
996GT3 rear 4 way sway bar

BRAKES:
997GT3 RS PCCB brake calipers 380mm/350mm
AP racing front 380mm slotted 72 vane floating rotors
AP racing rear 350mm slotted 72 vane floating rotors
PFC 08 front / 08 rear brake pads
Endless RF 650 brake fluid
PMNA 996GT3 CUP ABS unit
997GT3 brake master cylinder
997GT2 brake vacuum pump
996GT3 CUP front brake ducts
997GT3 RS rear brake ducts
997GT3 rear brake spoilers
997GT3 rear under tray
996GT2 fender liners F/R

WHEELS:
18x10 and 18x13 Finspeed F110 forged track wheels
275/35/18 and 335/30/18 Nitto NT01 tires

Chris Cervelli Alignment:
Front camber: -3.30' (-3.50º)
Front toe: +0.02' (+0.04' total)
Front Castor: +7.08' (7.13deg)
Rear camber: -2º30’ (-2.50º)
Rear toe: +0.15' (+0.30' total)

Total weight with 1/2 fuel minus driver: 3198 lbs

Last edited by pwdrhound; 09-25-2016 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 09-13-2015, 12:27 PM
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Wow impressive setup and complete answer, may I pm you for PNs for some parts ?

Was searching for AP racing, but didnt see any front rotors, good to know they are available

Do you think I can keep my OZ 8/11 with 245/305 or 315 and those big rotors ?
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Old 09-13-2015, 01:30 PM
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I bought the 996 GT2 competition kit for brakes. Essentially oversize steel rotors and the big yellow calipers. I think Kevin at Autowerke ? has all the part numbers and can order the parts. These fit inside my 18" BBS RS GT wheels no problem. It is an actual upgrade kit with all factory parts.
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Old 09-13-2015, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fadi View Post
Wow impressive setup and complete answer, may I pm you for PNs for some parts ?

Was searching for AP racing, but didnt see any front rotors, good to know they are available

Do you think I can keep my OZ 8/11 with 245/305 or 315 and those big rotors ?
Sure Fadi, I have a complete parts list if you need one. All OEM stuff. AP racing is a British company that makes the rotors. Very very high quality metallurgy. These are the J-hook you see used in all sorts of Motorsport from IMSA to NASCAR. The 380s are pictured below. They are available in 380 and 350s in both TT and GT offsets. These last a long time but are overkill for the street. Another good option are Girodisc 380/350. I currently have these on by car but switching back to the APs now that they are available. Not quite the quality of the APs but very good none the less and a bit cheaper. Also available in TT and GT applications. I keep stock of both the Giro and AP rotors.

The OZ 8/11s will not work. The rears 11s will work but they are not optimal. you really want a 12 rear for the 305s. The front 8s are way too narrow and will not clear the 380s. You need a 9 front to clear the big 380 calipers and even then it's very tight as you can see in the picture below. 9s will also give you a more responsive set up as it will make the sidewall of the tire stiffer by stretching it slightly over a 8.5 for example. Virtually every serious track set up will run a 9/12 and a few even go with a 9.5 with gutted fender liners. Most 18" wheels will not work as only a few are designed to clear the 380 calipers. Off the top of my head, the wheels that will clear are Finspeed, CCW C series, BBS E88. None of the OZ 18" wheels will clear and neither will 996TT or 996GT2 twists. If you stay with the smaller 350/350 brakes mentioned by the poster above, then those will clear any 18s. With proper cooling, the smaller stock 6pots are sufficient for anything but the hardest track use.

As far as tires go, if you are RWD then go with the taller 35 series rear tire vs. the short 30 series tire. The 1" taller rear will give you much better performance on all fronts. If you run the 888s run the 305/35/18 instead of the 315/30/18. Same with NT01s. To maintain a proper rake you will need to lower the rear of the car about 10-12mm and get a new alignment to take advantage of the 26.4" tall rears but it's worth it. Hope that helps...

[url=https://flic.kr/p/yiPPnn]

[url=https://flic.kr/p/yiHbuY]

Last edited by pwdrhound; 09-13-2015 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 09-13-2015, 06:49 PM
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Have also a GT-R and running AP Racing, went with curly version in the end over J hooks, going to try to DD this one.

Being an UK/European company is the best scenario for me as will be much easier with ordering, transport and pricing/taxes. So will discuss with them, seems I am sold.
Can find Girodisc here in Europe - 350mm slotted (guess better than drilled) they are like 3000$ F+R including adaptors

The main question is, can I get good performance from the OEM calipers ? or maybe 997tt calipers as they should be pretty cheap to buy used, or do I need to go serious to gt3rs calipers like you? I am not going to do endurance racing, just time attacks and track days - 20 min sessions usually

Am I right to consider the following possible setups?
- 996tt calipers + 350mm upgraded rotors
- 997tt calipers + 350mm upgrded rotors
- 997gt3rs calipers + 380mm upgraded rotors

Do you guys know if the cayenne calipers are any good? If I remember right they are bigger than 996tt

I am considering 997 gt3 19" wheels and they will clear any rotor, even the 380mm, not sure if loosing a lot of tire options and guess they should be more expensive too
Dont have options like Hoosier, Kumho, etc here.. more like Michelin, Pirelli, maybe some hankooks too. Also would be nice to be able to use
OEM Twists with CUPs 2
NEW RIMS 18/19 with slicks
I would try this combo for next year if 350mm rotors would be ok



If you are so kind whenever you have some time to PM me any support/PNs/sellers for the following, would be great:


TRANS
997GT3 transmission mount
Setrab / Mocal transmission cooler (Air to liquid)
997GT2RS 1-3 mainshaft with steel synchros - only synchros needed here

INTERIOR
996GT2 headliner / interior carpeting
996GT2 front trunk tool tray

SUSPENSION
PMNA 996GT3 front LCAs w/ 11mm shims
PMNA 997GT3 CUP front monoball ends
PMNA 997GT3 CUP front toe arms w/ bump steer
PMNA 996GT3 CUP front uprights
PMNA 997GT3 RSR rear LCAs w/ 1mm shims
PMNA 997GT3 CUP rear toe arms w/ bump steer
997GT3 rear hubs
997GT3 rear thrust arms
Tarett rear subframe bushings
Tarett rear toe locking kit
Tarret drop links F/R


BRAKES:

PMNA 996GT3 CUP ABS unit - guess can skip
997GT3 brake master cylinder - same
997GT2 brake vacuum pump - same
996GT3 CUP front brake ducts - I would upgrade
997GT3 RS rear brake ducts - I would upgrade
997GT3 rear brake spoilers - please advise if needed
997GT3 rear under tray - pls advise
996GT2 fender liners F/R - ?? same, please advise
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Old 09-13-2015, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowczar View Post
I bought the 996 GT2 competition kit for brakes. Essentially oversize steel rotors and the big yellow calipers. I think Kevin at Autowerke ? has all the part numbers and can order the parts. These fit inside my 18" BBS RS GT wheels no problem. It is an actual upgrade kit with all factory parts.
Will take a look, thanks for the tip. How do you feel them ?
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Old 09-14-2015, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fadi View Post
Will take a look, thanks for the tip. How do you feel them ?

Not so sure about the question about how to I feel them? I have never experienced any fade whatsoever but I don't track the car. Brake pedal feel is a little heavier/harder than stock but very manageable (my wife does not necessarily agree with this comment though).
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Old 09-14-2015, 03:37 PM
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OEM calipers won't be enough for you. At minimum go for 996GT2/996GT3kit but you may not be entirely happy with that. Some of the 997TT/GT3/RS kits (which are more or less the same with bit of difference in caliper piston sizes) should be bit better with also upgraded rear calipers. Pwdrhound knows brakes as above.

Pwdrhound, do you know the difference between 996 GT3 Cup uprights and 996 GT3 RS uprights? You have a part number for your Cup uprights? Any specific reason you went with the Cup uprights?

I am wondering whether the 996 GT3 Cup uprights were the same as 996 GT3 street version. At least 996 GT3 RS uprights were the homologation piece for the GT3 RSR 2004 with better geometry...and I have my eyes on those.
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Old 09-14-2015, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaizu View Post
OEM calipers won't be enough for you. At minimum go for 996GT2/996GT3kit but you may not be entirely happy with that. Some of the 997TT/GT3/RS kits (which are more or less the same with bit of difference in caliper piston sizes) should be bit better with also upgraded rear calipers. Pwdrhound knows brakes as above.

Pwdrhound, do you know the difference between 996 GT3 Cup uprights and 996 GT3 RS uprights? You have a part number for your Cup uprights? Any specific reason you went with the Cup uprights?

I am wondering whether the 996 GT3 Cup uprights were the same as 996 GT3 street version. At least 996 GT3 RS uprights were the homologation piece for the GT3 RSR 2004 with better geometry...and I have my eyes on those.
Hey Kai,
I just looked up the uprights in the 2005 996Cup maintenance manual and ordered those. I think they may be the same parts as on the street cars actually. The RSR uprights have a lower pickup point which gives you lower roll centers. If you end up going with the RSR fronts then you will also need to go with the RSR rear subframes, cross members, wheel carriers, etc. so that you match the roll center of the fronts. The RSR wheel carriers do not have provisions for a parking brake if I recall. I may be cheaper to install all 997GT3 stuff as the geometry is better on those compared to the 996 and you can get it relatively cheap if someone is parting out a wreck. I almost bought a complete set of 997GT3 uprights with rear subframes and the rest of the parts a few months back. Unfortunately someone beat me to it. The 996 is not bad but it helps to run stiffer springs to compensate.
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Old 09-15-2015, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pwdrhound View Post
997GT3 rear hubs
Could you please tell us how did you install 997GT3 rear uprights on 996?
Fork-type shock mount can be fixed by installing 997 shocks, but what to do with ABS sensor there? Even provision for it looks different and smaller.
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Old 09-15-2015, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willy077 View Post
Could you please tell us how did you install 997GT3 rear uprights on 996?
Fork-type shock mount can be fixed by installing 997 shocks, but what to do with ABS sensor there? Even provision for it looks different and smaller.
I have 997GT3 hubs, not uprights or wheel carriers
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Old 09-20-2015, 06:07 PM
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Guys as my choices here are quite limited, no Hoosiers, Kumho, Nitto, etc

We have a great price on
Cup2 tires 18,19
R888 only in 19.. dont know why 18" are like 50% more expensive...

R888 are even a bit cheaper than Cup2 but not sure they are better than Cup2
Also cost wise 18Cups2=19R888

might be gt2 rims+ gt2/gt2rs 235(245)/35/19F 325/30/19R a good choice including even 380mm brakes clearance?

Last edited by Fadi; 09-20-2015 at 06:20 PM. Reason: added text
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Old 09-20-2015, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fadi View Post
Guys as my choices here are quite limited, no Hoosiers, Kumho, Nitto, etc

We have a great price on
Cup2 tires 18,19
R888 only in 19.. dont know why 18" are like 50% more expensive...

R888 are even a bit cheaper than Cup2 but not sure they are better than Cup2
Also cost wise 18Cups2=19R888

might be gt2 rims+ gt2/gt2rs 235(245)/35/19F 325/30/19R a good choice including even 380mm brakes clearance?
For track use, the Sport Cup2 is a great tire. 888s are horrible in comparison.
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Old 09-20-2015, 06:47 PM
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Than its good, have found the rears available in
12J ET67 or
12J ET51

any idea what's better for track? guess will convert back to rwd
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