I also looked at the R&T's myself. It looks like a really great setup and the fact that you can order them with the rates you want at that price is excellent!! I think they would be pretty great for your goals.

The only issues I had was when I studied their install sheets/specs it seemed like when adjusting the perches to within Ohlins specs it did not seem like the ride height would be low enough for what I wanted, my understanding was a max of 20mm or so drop over stock 996TT. I contacted them also to verify approximate lowering and I believe they quoted me about 20mm as well ( I can look for the email). Perhaps I am wrong on the ride height but the 2nd issue was the price, 2wd are priced Really well but 996TT versions are like $1k more than 2wd

 

I'm pretty excited to see the transformation. Cool thing is, while not a 100 direct comparison, we will be installing my old GT2 coilovers (with a rebuild) into my dad's 6TT and can go back-forth testing... GT2 coilovers are miles better then factory TT shocks... control and compliance...still like Bilstein stuff, even though its fairly basic compared to the top-tier stuff now
Had a look at the Ohlins setup guide for the TT application, looks like top ride height adjustment is about that of (I assume) Euro factory ride, while the lower end is a 25mm drop.
Was shocked at price difference 2wd vs awd...under $2500USD for GT2/3, how can you go wrong?!

 

IMO the Road and Track is not suitable for the track. Granted when I had them on my car it was basically a full race car. They bounce around a ton and the pressure release valve they use for street compliancemakes them almost undriveable. I have a picture of me doing a wheelie at raod Atlanta and i literally under hard braking bounced through the brake zone. Looked like the car had hrdraulics. They are super comfy street coilover though. I would only recommend them for 1-3 maybe 5 track weekends per year for a novice to intermediate on plain street tires to maybe an NT01 level tire. They are fine for any street driving thougj. Probably the most comfy you can get, but sorely lacking on track.


I.perosnally prefer a big split on spring rates (200-300 lbs) on a RWD Turbo and even more could be possible for AWD to counter the extra power understeer. I had Ohlins revalve my R&T and they still wouldnt work. I would honeslty opt for a cheap set of Ksports or used set of JIC, V3 or pss9 instead.

Matter of fact Jon, the head of what used to be JIC north america just released his own coilover line made in the USA. I havent driven on them, but Jon knows his stuff and does time attack himself.

And lastly motion control single adjustables are only 2600-2900. Best bang for the buck new IMO. And Lex is one of the best around.

 

not to interupt the big boys re decent coilover setups but gophaster has brought up an interesting point, the answer to which has escaped me since forever given this car has never had a decent set of coils and i've always said that the mo30 X red h&r's has always "seemed" fine for mountain climbing. so my question is this.. if someone would offer their definitive judgment since this is BIG for me re $$$

i always hear of this 600/800 spring rates and assume this is a basic spring rate and relatively "common" for a "middle of the road" setup. if i rebuild the gt3 bilsteins taken of a 996 gt3 and inarguably in need of a "refresh:" since i'm not putting OLD sh*t on my car as an "upgrade"!? is that in the experts here opinion suitable as a starting point ( or scratch "starting" ) is THAT the spring rate of 996 gt3 springs that would've come stock with the car?

i realize that most of you guys that have heard me ramble on about this topic over the (years?! ) and have seen me do nothing, need to understand this has never been a priority for me, given that my setup has served me REALLY well, for my OWN time attack of my local 5 mile straight up/down mountains, best described as the best facsimile of a pikes peak mountain that the santa monica mountain range has to offer, which not for nothing is roughly 30 miles of some fairly serious switchbacks and two lane blacktop.

are standard setup ( as new ) gt3 coilovers w new springs ( 600/800 rates.. what IS std?? ) going to vastly improve my getting "older" and in need of refresh MO30 w h&r sport springs setup currently just below gt2 height rwd w that albatross of a front differential STILL hanging there?? again, this allows me to change to entire geometry and once and for all, correct the uprights/carriers et al, to proper gt2/3 vertical fronts and geometry! something that while I MAY NOT EVER NOTICE, but which embarrasses me knowing that's how the car currently "sits" as i may be "cheap"? but i am NOT a half as**ed guy when it comes to what little is done to this car. not if one separates and isolates part by part what all has ( and has not ) been "done". this dilemma all stems from the fact that ALL the needed gt3 bits ( albeit used and needing to be re-valved w/ new springs etc ) are literally siting in a box with my name on them since my buddy has had NO need to simply "sell" them, but this won't stay like this forever, and i need to decide soon what to do. new gt3 setup? or new bilstein b8 damper w/ springs.. ( again )..which ( again! ) I've lived with absent "complaints"! for years, literally. i'm concerned that i might just possibly not know what i am "missing"? simply because you cant "miss" what you've never had.

thx for any advice and ( adrian although i have apologized a number of times ) i can't start a new thread since it's merely a side question to yours, and i hope you're ok with whatever info someone will hopefully share? ) thx again to those that have already begun to help guide me and my currently uninformed and unmade "decision". car is a hillclimber only. no roadcourse/dragstrip shenanigans. just think "pikes peak" and what might be "best",.. yet not break the bank. again, TIA.

 

Not a problem. I don't mind it. Lol
that's what forums are a about getting proper information from our brothers and sisters on this forum it's all about helping each other out.
I'm still in the research phase myself so the more info that's out there the better understanding I have.

 

i appreciate that. given i post in 7/10 threads. few are mine. thx for your understanding! ..and happy new year!

 

I will need to do a new setup eventually. Been putting it off for-ever. Car came with H&R springs.

I currently have JRZ RS and Motion Control on my list, mostly for street and possibly an occasional track day.

I don't drive my car daily, if I did, I think I would do either KW V3 or PSS10.

Happy New Year to all!

 

I'm curious to know the school of thought on this. Most every cup car is full monoball, and I've never heard of one running less than a 200# split front to rear. I've heard rumors of RSR's running stiffer front springs than rear, but that's about it.

 

No Cup car comes with a 200# or greater split from the factory...

GT3 Cup factory spring rates (Cups weigh approx. 2600#)
996GT3 Cup: 1370/1484 (110# split)
997GT3 Cup: 1484/1484 (0 split)
991GT3 Cup: 1370/1484 (110# split)
If I recall, RSRs run even higher rates in the neighborhood of 1800-2000


I used to run 260/550, then changed to 600/800 and then 700/800. I then had my car set up by a professional racer with years of experience racing and setting up various Porsches including 996/997/Cups and RSRs. After driving my car at the track, he completely overhauled everything suspension wise. Initial rates he calculated for a full race set up were in the 1800# range but as a compromise (for a car I was still using on the street occasionaly) he settled on 1400/1500 with 150/250 helpers. I was quite shocked at these rates but if you consider the fact that our cars are 500+ lbs. heavier than a Cup car, running soft squishy 600/800 springs makes no sense for a track set up when you are chasing each second. Interestingly, 1400/1500 is very compliant when the shock compression is dialed back for bumpier tracks. I was very surprised by this. I will say that high end remote canister race shocks are required as no street shock or non remote shock cold handle rates this high. As an aside, a 100# split on 1400/1500 rates is 6.6% while a 200# split on 600/800 rates is 25%. The difference is dramatic. Also keep in mind that as you increase spring rates while keeping the split the same, you are decreasing the relative % difference.

After he dialed everything in on the car I basically had to go back to square one and essentially relearn how to drive the car. With some coaching, results came rather quickly and I basically went from running 2:01s at my track to a personal best of 1:53.1. Having a dialed suspension with these spring rates gave me a lot of confidence with the car. Steering is much sharper with and the car is just planted.

The idea behind having basically even F&R spring rates is that it induces understeer into the chassis and forces you to be much more aggressive on turn entry. It requires that you trail brake hard and deep to the apex in order to transfer weight to the front wheels thus rotating the car. As such, it requires a higher entry speed in order to have more momentum to carry you though the turn under braking because the car will not turn but rather plow under power. The result is the simple fact that this forces you to elevate you minimum speed through the turn which will eventually result in lower lap times. It's counterintuitive at first and feels like a step back initially but once you get used to the difference you will see the times dropping. That's the school of thought behind the small split in rates and why all Cup cars are set up that way from the factory. Even with these spring rates, I'm running my front bar one hole from full stiff and my rear bar one hole from full soft. There is virtually no tendency for the back end to get loose even under hard braking on turn entry. If it does, it's easily correctible with a little counter steer. I can still get a little power on oversteer on turn exit but thats about it. In high speed sweepers, the car will exhibit a slight amount of understeer at the limit. By comparison, when I was running a much larger 200# split on relatively soft springs, my car felt much looser and demanded much more respect and attention as it approached the limit. It was slower as a result.

As stiffly sprung set up with a very narrow spring split is definitely not for someone that likes to straight line brake or gently trail brake and then drive through the turn under power. This is how my car was initially set up (600/800 with a relatively stiff rear bar) before Chris put his mojo on the car. It wasn't until Chris revamped everything that I realized how much more potential the car had just waiting to be unlocked. Getting coaching from a Pro was key to maximizing the potential in this kind of set up. My only minor complaint is that the car is still slightly under sprung for its current weight. Ideally I would like to bump the springs to 1600/1700 but that would necessitate now triples or quads. I will go this route if I gut the car later this year as I plan to race it in PCA.

I will say that for a street set up where lap time are irrelevant and guys wanna be able to hang the tail out easily for fun, a larger split will make that easier as it will make the car looser. The looser the car is, the more of it "widow maker" it becomes.

Hope this sheds a little light on it. Still planning on doing COTA in May. Hope you can make it..

 

Ahhh, I see. I do remember my shop (Goldcrest Motorsports) telling me they took all of the heavy springs out of their customers cars because the cars were just too hard for non pro's to drive. They usually run standard 700/900 which you will see most guys in Cups at track days running.

Their pro teams usually switch shocks altogether to Ohlins or JRZ 4 or 5 ways.

I have run 600/900 and it was the most stable platform I've driven. In fact I still haven't matched my time on that setup 3 years later as I switched to 700/900. Going back to my original setup this year. I couldn't imagine running springs in the 1500/1600 range though I've never tried it.

If I go to COTA, it will be with Chin Motorsports. PCA tends to overcrowd the DE's at many of the Club Races. I haven't run a PCA event since 2008.

 

That's too bad. I'd like to run with you. I know Park wanted to also. When is the Chin event? I've never had issues at the PCA Club race advanced DEs. It's only advanced level drivers and if you go out at the head of the pack you have plenty of clean laps before you start catching up to people. I always do a slow warm up lap to bunch everyone up behind me initially for this reason.

 

I didnt knownyou guys had decided on a date yet. Or maybe I forgot. Chin runs in February (20,21).

 

I decided against going in February as the weather is just too questionable at that time. The last couple of years they had rain. The odds of good weather in May is much greater. There is just too much time and money invested to have rain or sleet be part of the equation. Plus I'm skiing in February...

 

Questionable couldn't be more right. February in Austin we could have 90 degrees and sunny or 20 degrees and ice, or both in the same weekend.

 

I agree that R&T would be the wrong choice for a track-only car and would consider them if it was my primary usage. Have lots of independent reviews and R&T seem to be a good fit for the usage mine gets currently, and again at the price point I'm willing to give it a shot...I'm just a young guy trying to make it all happen, big-boy suspension down the road
Also, besides checking everything over and setting tire pressures, I'm really just arrive and drive with this car, true street-track...I don't miss the whole 'transformation' at the track anymore; no slicks/pad compound change/geometry setup for me anymore.
Karting provides 'racecar' thrills much cheaper, lol.
What is the name of the new coilover brand?
Cheers,
Rob