Blown coolant hose turned into clutch job after all!

I posted the "washed my engine, killed my clutch" thread, then thought I had it fixed with a new pressure accumulator + slave, well, its turned into a clutch job after all - if you have someone wash your engine or it gets coolant blown all over the motor, then it may turn into a clutch job as follows:

1/ Blew 4" hole in coolant hose coming from water pump at redline - douses motor, even to firewall. Coolant spray sucked into air filter, MAF ok, but needed to replace soaked air filter + flatbed to dealer to properly suck cooling system down to eliminate air pockets.

2/ Had motor cleaned by dealer, took home - clutch is now notchy feeling at top of travel, then creaks from bellhousing, then becomes a hard pedal.

3/ Replaced pressure accumulator + slave (dealer thought this was source of creak). Checked for creak upon pick up - was OK (car was cool to cold)

4/ Discover bell housing creak still exists when warm, notchy feeling when warm.

5/ Find out that 996tt has air vent at top of bellhousing that points up to cool clutch - suspect that dealer motor wash or coolant flowed from flat surface of engine into this air vent since clutch was flawless and quiet immediately before the coolant fiasco.

6/ It appears that liquid entered bell housing through this clutch vent and washed the lube from the release arm/throwout bearing and caused the creak (can feel creak through the E-brake and pedal)

7/ Find out that 996tt needs to have entire engine/trans assy removed to separate trans from engine due to inaccessible upper bell housing bolts - problem unique to 996tt due to additional frame member/cross member in this area. This means, disconnecting A/C, PS lines, main harness, oil lines, coolant lines and recharging, refilling, re-bleeding all of these again.

Result, wash your 996tt engine and you risk a clutch job! - dealer will probably do a 50% goodwill for labor, so I will spring for a new clutch kit since I have 30K miles.

Anyone know the labor hours for a 996tt clutch job and cost for clutch kit?

Bond

 

It is the dealer's negligence why should you pay for 1/2 of the labor? You mentioned your clutch was working properly. Even if you have 30K miles your car went in without clutch problems.

 

Wow, sorry to hear that. Maybe you should consider an upgraded clutch while youre in there. Ive heard that 996tt clutches dont last that long anyways.

 

First of all, the engine does not need to be removed to change the clutch. Secondly, I would not pay for anything and demand that the dealer make it right. If you decide on a NEW clutch, then just pay for parts.

Unless you're not telling us the whole story...seems like a no brainer to me.

 

The head tech there advises that engine must be removed with trans as a unit then separated out of car - I don't have much to argue with since they will be doing this work as a 50% goodwill and how can I tell the head tech that he should do it a different way? - car is one year out of warranty and its a tough call on the clutch job - yes, I could have them drop motor (they insist its only way on turbo [carrera not necessary]) and just replace or lube the small part (fork or T/O bearing) that is actually creaking, but I would like to take this opportunity to save some labor on a fresh clutch. So, my true loss here is the 50% labor on engine/trans drop (they won't do 100%), I am adding the clutch costs as a preventative. They are taking 33% off parts as well (showed them internet dealer prices and had them match)

The problem is, some of these cars DO have a history of creaking (search Renntech.org under 996tt creaking clutch, and a guy in UK has same issue no washing or coolant issue), so it is very difficult to prove anything.

1999Porsche911 - do you know for a fact that the Porsche service manual proceedure for the TURBO does not require an engine drop to change clutch?, but then again, shall I show them how to do it if it does not? - not a great way to ensure a good job (look..., let me (mr customer) show you the right way to do it) is there a cross member that hampers access to the top bell housing bolts?



Bond

 

PorschePHD's post on 9/21/05 in Rennlist - guess this answers my question:

"The dealer will since that is how they are trained. Most don't know it can be done with the motor in place"

He also advised it was 5 hours each way for the trans drop/replace, vs. I think 12-15 book time for the engine drop (god I hope so anyway), so not an enormous savings here.

Bond

 

Bond, just had my tranny rebuilt, (long story) but decided to upgrade my clutch at the same time. the engine definately DOES NOT have to be dropped to replace the clutch or tranny for that matter! this was done at the dealship BTW.
Also recommend highly getting the sachs clutch/pressure plate and the light weight flywheel. It drives close to normal and accelerates faster. Also heel toe blips are easier at the track.
Only possible downside is there is some clutch "chatter" but just adds to the character of the car's sound!

 

Just had my clutch replaced with OEM, $3500 including tax. Car has 24k miles, 02. I called about 7 or 8 dealers and the cost ranged from $2800- 4000 plus tax. All of them told me the motor had to be dropped on the turbo but not on the NA models. Good luck. TC

 

maxjamie - good to know, at least this confirms that my dealer is correct (from a factory protocol standpoint anyhow) do you remember the labor hours and parts cost? thanks.

tom kerr - what was the labor hours for the trans drop from the dealer that did it w/o the engine removal

Thanks to both

Bond

 

I just received a quote for 2138.00 (100.00 hr rate) for labor only on my clutch replacement from San Diego area dealer.

Do you recall what the labor portion was of your clutch job, and what the other dealers quoted? - they are paying 50% of labor. but the labor seems high.

Did you end up replacing the flywheel (required, I think) - retail for just the Flywheel (1154.00) + T/O bearing (179.00) + P Plate (567.00) + Clutch (368.00) comes to 2268.00, which is minimum typically for proper job. Added to my labor quote, its 4400.00 + tax!, I am getting about 25-33% off on parts, but the labor appears excessive after reading your research results of 2800 - 4000 from dealers.

I wonder what the actual Porsche "Book" hours are for this job?

Any input here much appreciated.

Bond

 

Bond our shop rate is 125 and we charge about 1250 for a clutch job on a 996TT. Just a point of reference. Maybe they're taking the engine out to do it but you don't need to.... We do it without removing the engine.

 

Thanks for the point of reference Alex - so, 10 hours @ 125.00/hr correct? - what do the parts usually come to? - about 20% off the prices I listed?

Bond