Ze Shark, I can only speak on the 24/18 hybrid from Protomotive as I have them. They spool up much quicker than the stock 24's and they just keep on pulling and pulling; LOOOONG range of power as Markski as stated. I also think if you are planing on modding a P car the X50 cars are the way to go. You get the larger K24's and larger Ic's. In my case I upgraded my stock 24's for a cost of $1,400.00 which included new Hybrid 24/18 turbos with pre-set WG's. In P car terms that was a steal!

 

Didnt you pay for additional ecu tuning?

 

Yes. I also paid for 5 bar FPR, BMC filter, Fabspeed exhaust, BOV's, and Greddy boost controller. I should have said "If" you have a K24 car and plan on modding it the 24/18 hybrid turbo upgrade was the least expensive way I found to get more power from a turbo upgrade standpoint. I couldn't find another turbo upgrade in the same range or ballpark for that money.

 

JWC(John),
glad you can chime in because you had both the k24s and the k24/18g....
I had k16s, k24s, and stage 5 ZC turbos...
thats the problem with smaller turbos... their HP range is short via the rpms...

 

Mark, I think that with technology marching along it is possible to have a small turbo that makes the power of a larger one without the accompanying lag. I know the 24/18G is a 600hp setup that can also take you to the 700hp level, but a well engineered 16/24+ hybrid gives up nothing to the 18G at the 600hp level, in fact exceeds it at almost all points on the powerband. Case in point: Here is AzExotics dyno sheet that was posted and here is my old setup. Now AZ was on a Dyno Dynamics and I was on a Mustang. Most agree that the Mustang will read a little(2-3%) high, but the 18G was running 100octane at 1.35 bar and I was on pump at 1.25 bar so I assume that would account for any dyno discrepancies.
STG2 ZC 16/24......................24/18G
2500.....135HP/283TQ.............100HP/210TQ
3000.....216HP/379TQ.............150hp/260TQ
3500.....317HP/476TQ.............230HP/340TQ
4000.....390HP/514TQ.............380HP/490TQ
4500.....450HP/526TQ.............465HP/550TQ
4700.....507HP/565TQ.............490HP/530TQ
5000.....488HP/513TQ.............490HP/510TQ
5500.....494HP/472TQ.............485HP/460TQ
6000.....500HP/437TQ.............460HP/400TQ
Peak Power 512HP/565TQ........492HP/545TQ
Peak power and tq is better with the hybrid even running lower boost and pump gas.As you can see under 4000 rpm it isnt even close... much more power and torque significantly sooner in the rev range. Over 4000 rpms the power is relatively even until 5500 -6000 where the hybrids carry the power and tq much longer than the 18G's.... I am not sure what "HP range is short via RPMs for small turbos" you are referring to. I will agree that these turbos cannot be caried into the 700 hp range but at 600 hp they are quite impressive. I think you are also aware that my upcoming setup will still be "small" K16 based that will produce SIGNIFICANTLY more power and tq about 1200 rpms sooner than these numbers.... so much for the small turbo theory. Kevin

 

KPG did your car make 627 AWHP? Or was it 507?

 

Kevin,

We discussed this privately at the time, but for the sake of information sharing, I thought I would post it here. The dyno numbers indicate the 16/24 to be superior to the 24/18G, but how do you explain this then? (I think you will agree we have almost identical performing cars, therefore it is a good comparison based on your dyno).

I lined up with a protomotive K24/18G car on the highway in 3rd gear at about 65-70 MPH. On the count of 3 we both punched it. The Proto car literally jumped/leaped ahead of me, instantaneously, by 2 car lengths, we then pulled about the same for a few sconds and backed off at just over 100 MPH. I was very surprised, as just a few minutes before, I had driven the car and felt the inherent lag in the 24/18G compared to my 16/24 car. I wouldn't expect it to leap off so quickly, but it really put some distance on me in a hurry. I felt I was in a pretty sweet spot with my car, but it just couldn't answer the 24/18G car. Now granted, I had 2 passengers and weekend luggage (lets say 250 Lbs. over the Proto car). Even without the weight, I don't think I could have out run the proto car. Add to this that Todd K claims the K24/18G will run high 10's/ low 11's and should easily trap into the 130's. If all this is true, then even though the 16/24 looks great/better on paper, it seems that it doesn't do it on the road, where it counts. Not to take anything away from the 16/24 package because I love it and think it's a great package. I think there is somethning about the larger turbos that just make more power in actual driving situations. What do you think?

 

John, peak numbers were 512 AWHP/565AWTQ and I used evos 18.5% loss for an AWD dyno and that got me to 627FWHP/695FWTQ on pump gas... Kevin

 

John, great points and I cannot speak of anyones car but my own. First off 250lbs is alot... a 1/4 sec at the dragstrip at our speeds, very big number. I agree that the ultimate test is on the road and not on paper, but until some Proto600 post trap and ET we cannot make a comparison..plain and simple. You and I have the highest traps for a 16/24 hybrid at around 128... now Scott has another 100 hp that puts him in the 136 range... I would imagine with a 100 hp less he would be right where we are... Remeber you and your friend were taking it from a roll and that minimizes the lag disadvantage. look at the numbers I posted... around 4K they are even... what would happen if it was from a dig or 2500 rpm...it may be quite different. Again, until we see some Proto drag times, and Scott is the lone time, we cant compare very well... Kevin

 

Good points - and yes, it would be great to see some Proto 600 times for comparison. I will hopefully be able to put up some positive P600 times this spring.

 

I would expect no less

 

Good numbers KPG. I am not sure about compairing dyno numbers on cars with different dyno's, different days, temps., correction factors, etc. etc.

 

John, it is for comparison only. Nothing more or less, but I cant compare my 128.2 trap with any Proto 600 car since no one has posted yet, but that would make a better comaprison. Kevin.

John D... I ran some of my Vbox drag runs and I picked a 127 at 12.00 since that is closest to your trap and that 250 lbs which is a 1/4 sec deficit at the drags equates to almost 85feet of real estate over a full 1320 feet... if you ran half the distance with your buddy it would still be 40+ feet... something to ponder... weight hurts, believe me at 3800# I know...

 

I had a very similar situation with my EVo....
I have a GT35R turbo(laggy) and a local friend Awais has a X50 we went at it at 70 mph and I expected him to take me initially... I was on pump gas and low boost(20 psi) car dynoed 393 awd at that boost....
but it was the the other way around... ???
I dont get it.
markski

 

Superior driver...plain and simple