Yet ANOTHER domination for GTR...
#31
03-25-2008, 11:15 AM
#33
03-25-2008, 11:20 AM
#34
03-25-2008, 11:20 AM
Every mag seems to conclude that objectively the GTR is a higher performance car by a slight margin.
That's a great achievement but does not really affect what I want to drive. My 997TT is modified so I doubt a stock GTR is quicker. Until one can buy a GTR in America with reputable mods to equal my car's hp/weight ratio, it would not be a higher performance car to me.
Also I prefer the exterior of my 997TT, but REALLY dislike the GTR interior. It is such a mess. Porsches are OK in that dept, but BMW and Mercedes are even better. That GTR interior looks like 5 designers came up with five sections of the interior and put them all together at the final moment without ever meeting each other beforehand. I love electronic and gadgets, but they can exist in a harmonious and aesthetically-pleasing way, not like that total chaos.
Ride is also important to me and it appears that the GTR is very stiffly sprung as reviewed by Autocar last month. that is important for me as a daily driver.
Finally, we will have to see how this car holds up after injecting another 100hp onto the drivetrain, when such mods exist.
I do say that at $70K, its a great car. But we have seen a $70K car that is in many ways quicker and faster than a 997TT before. In fact, I had one. It came out almost 2 years ago. It is called the Z06. That did not seem to kill the 997TT market. In fact, it made me go back and buy another one. And they are now selling all over the USA at invoice or less. Most Porsche dealers don't even have new 2008 turbo's to sell to or order for anybody. Which goes to show sheer competence in terms of speed on a track or your favorite canyon road does not guarantee market success.
I bet the GTR will sell for MSRP within 6 months after launch in the US. They are making a lot of them, and to a lot of people, a Nissan is a Nissan and a Porsche is a Porsche, and it does not matter if the Nissan can run rings around a 997TT. A lot of $100K car buyers do buy cars more than just for its performance. It will certainly take sales away from some M3 buyers and some C63 buyers, but not too many 997tt, F430, Gallardo, SL63 buyers will forgo their choice to drive a Nissan. I was in a focus group a year ago put together by Lexus promoting the LF-A. We had a panel of 10 people who owned F430's Bentleys, Porsches, Aston Martins, etc. EVERYONE said they would never buy one, and when asked why, they all said, "Why? Because its a f%^&ing Lexus!" Now that was a Lexus, a much higher brand than Nissan in the US. This is not to say that there are no real car enthusiast that would buy a great car no matter what the brand is, but there are far more $100K plus buyers and their wives or husbands that will condone a $150K Porsche but not a $70K Nissan. (Look at the Phaeton as an example.) If they had called it a new name under a new franchise, maybe it would do better. In the US, I think there will be more people willing to buy a $100K ZR1 than a $70K Nissan. When I can walk into a dealer get get one at a discount (which I think by February or March 2009), I may buy one and see what its all about, but not in the expense of my 997TT or any of the other sports or GT cars I mentioned above.
That's a great achievement but does not really affect what I want to drive. My 997TT is modified so I doubt a stock GTR is quicker. Until one can buy a GTR in America with reputable mods to equal my car's hp/weight ratio, it would not be a higher performance car to me.
Also I prefer the exterior of my 997TT, but REALLY dislike the GTR interior. It is such a mess. Porsches are OK in that dept, but BMW and Mercedes are even better. That GTR interior looks like 5 designers came up with five sections of the interior and put them all together at the final moment without ever meeting each other beforehand. I love electronic and gadgets, but they can exist in a harmonious and aesthetically-pleasing way, not like that total chaos.
Ride is also important to me and it appears that the GTR is very stiffly sprung as reviewed by Autocar last month. that is important for me as a daily driver.
Finally, we will have to see how this car holds up after injecting another 100hp onto the drivetrain, when such mods exist.
I do say that at $70K, its a great car. But we have seen a $70K car that is in many ways quicker and faster than a 997TT before. In fact, I had one. It came out almost 2 years ago. It is called the Z06. That did not seem to kill the 997TT market. In fact, it made me go back and buy another one. And they are now selling all over the USA at invoice or less. Most Porsche dealers don't even have new 2008 turbo's to sell to or order for anybody. Which goes to show sheer competence in terms of speed on a track or your favorite canyon road does not guarantee market success.
I bet the GTR will sell for MSRP within 6 months after launch in the US. They are making a lot of them, and to a lot of people, a Nissan is a Nissan and a Porsche is a Porsche, and it does not matter if the Nissan can run rings around a 997TT. A lot of $100K car buyers do buy cars more than just for its performance. It will certainly take sales away from some M3 buyers and some C63 buyers, but not too many 997tt, F430, Gallardo, SL63 buyers will forgo their choice to drive a Nissan. I was in a focus group a year ago put together by Lexus promoting the LF-A. We had a panel of 10 people who owned F430's Bentleys, Porsches, Aston Martins, etc. EVERYONE said they would never buy one, and when asked why, they all said, "Why? Because its a f%^&ing Lexus!" Now that was a Lexus, a much higher brand than Nissan in the US. This is not to say that there are no real car enthusiast that would buy a great car no matter what the brand is, but there are far more $100K plus buyers and their wives or husbands that will condone a $150K Porsche but not a $70K Nissan. (Look at the Phaeton as an example.) If they had called it a new name under a new franchise, maybe it would do better. In the US, I think there will be more people willing to buy a $100K ZR1 than a $70K Nissan. When I can walk into a dealer get get one at a discount (which I think by February or March 2009), I may buy one and see what its all about, but not in the expense of my 997TT or any of the other sports or GT cars I mentioned above.
#35
03-25-2008, 11:26 AM
Just in, the Porsche passes the money test too!!!! There was another study where they sat a baby in front of both cars and a stack of money to see which one he would crawl to. He chose the 911 everytime. Baby fart. Baby Belch.
#36
03-25-2008, 11:28 AM
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#38
03-25-2008, 11:35 AM
[media]http://www.autoatlanta.com/porsche-boutique/assets/detailed_view/95504480058.jpg[/media]
#39
03-25-2008, 11:47 AM
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Location: W Palm Beach, FL
Age: 54
Posts: 174
Rep Power: 27 Every mag seems to conclude that objectively the GTR is a higher performance car by a slight margin.
That's a great achievement but does not really affect what I want to drive. My 997TT is modified so I doubt a stock GTR is quicker. Until one can buy a GTR in America with reputable mods to equal my car's hp/weight ratio, it would not be a higher performance car to me.
Also I prefer the exterior of my 997TT, but REALLY dislike the GTR interior. It is such a mess. Porsches are OK in that dept, but BMW and Mercedes are even better. That GTR interior looks like 5 designers came up with five sections of the interior and put them all together at the final moment without ever meeting each other beforehand. I love electronic and gadgets, but they can exist in a harmonious and aesthetically-pleasing way, not like that total chaos.
Ride is also important to me and it appears that the GTR is very stiffly sprung as reviewed by Autocar last month. that is important for me as a daily driver.
Finally, we will have to see how this car holds up after injecting another 100hp onto the drivetrain, when such mods exist.
I do say that at $70K, its a great car. But we have seen a $70K car that is in many ways quicker and faster than a 997TT before. In fact, I had one. It came out almost 2 years ago. It is called the Z06. That did not seem to kill the 997TT market. In fact, it made me go back and buy another one. And they are now selling all over the USA at invoice or less. Most Porsche dealers don't even have new 2008 turbo's to sell to or order for anybody. Which goes to show sheer competence in terms of speed on a track or your favorite canyon road does not guarantee market success.
I bet the GTR will sell for MSRP within 6 months after launch in the US. They are making a lot of them, and to a lot of people, a Nissan is a Nissan and a Porsche is a Porsche, and it does not matter if the Nissan can run rings around a 997TT. A lot of $100K car buyers do buy cars more than just for its performance. It will certainly take sales away from some M3 buyers and some C63 buyers, but not too many 997tt, F430, Gallardo, SL63 buyers will forgo their choice to drive a Nissan. I was in a focus group a year ago put together by Lexus promoting the LF-A. We had a panel of 10 people who owned F430's Bentleys, Porsches, Aston Martins, etc. EVERYONE said they would never buy one, and when asked why, they all said, "Why? Because its a f%^&ing Lexus!" Now that was a Lexus, a much higher brand than Nissan in the US. This is not to say that there are no real car enthusiast that would buy a great car no matter what the brand is, but there are far more $100K plus buyers and their wives or husbands that will condone a $150K Porsche but not a $70K Nissan. (Look at the Phaeton as an example.) If they had called it a new name under a new franchise, maybe it would do better. In the US, I think there will be more people willing to buy a $100K ZR1 than a $70K Nissan. When I can walk into a dealer get get one at a discount (which I think by February or March 2009), I may buy one and see what its all about, but not in the expense of my 997TT or any of the other sports or GT cars I mentioned above.
That's a great achievement but does not really affect what I want to drive. My 997TT is modified so I doubt a stock GTR is quicker. Until one can buy a GTR in America with reputable mods to equal my car's hp/weight ratio, it would not be a higher performance car to me.
Also I prefer the exterior of my 997TT, but REALLY dislike the GTR interior. It is such a mess. Porsches are OK in that dept, but BMW and Mercedes are even better. That GTR interior looks like 5 designers came up with five sections of the interior and put them all together at the final moment without ever meeting each other beforehand. I love electronic and gadgets, but they can exist in a harmonious and aesthetically-pleasing way, not like that total chaos.
Ride is also important to me and it appears that the GTR is very stiffly sprung as reviewed by Autocar last month. that is important for me as a daily driver.
Finally, we will have to see how this car holds up after injecting another 100hp onto the drivetrain, when such mods exist.
I do say that at $70K, its a great car. But we have seen a $70K car that is in many ways quicker and faster than a 997TT before. In fact, I had one. It came out almost 2 years ago. It is called the Z06. That did not seem to kill the 997TT market. In fact, it made me go back and buy another one. And they are now selling all over the USA at invoice or less. Most Porsche dealers don't even have new 2008 turbo's to sell to or order for anybody. Which goes to show sheer competence in terms of speed on a track or your favorite canyon road does not guarantee market success.
I bet the GTR will sell for MSRP within 6 months after launch in the US. They are making a lot of them, and to a lot of people, a Nissan is a Nissan and a Porsche is a Porsche, and it does not matter if the Nissan can run rings around a 997TT. A lot of $100K car buyers do buy cars more than just for its performance. It will certainly take sales away from some M3 buyers and some C63 buyers, but not too many 997tt, F430, Gallardo, SL63 buyers will forgo their choice to drive a Nissan. I was in a focus group a year ago put together by Lexus promoting the LF-A. We had a panel of 10 people who owned F430's Bentleys, Porsches, Aston Martins, etc. EVERYONE said they would never buy one, and when asked why, they all said, "Why? Because its a f%^&ing Lexus!" Now that was a Lexus, a much higher brand than Nissan in the US. This is not to say that there are no real car enthusiast that would buy a great car no matter what the brand is, but there are far more $100K plus buyers and their wives or husbands that will condone a $150K Porsche but not a $70K Nissan. (Look at the Phaeton as an example.) If they had called it a new name under a new franchise, maybe it would do better. In the US, I think there will be more people willing to buy a $100K ZR1 than a $70K Nissan. When I can walk into a dealer get get one at a discount (which I think by February or March 2009), I may buy one and see what its all about, but not in the expense of my 997TT or any of the other sports or GT cars I mentioned above.
#40
03-25-2008, 11:52 AM
The new GT-R is not a skyline, sorry. Not to take anything away from it but it does not follow the lineage of the previous cars. If it had an inline and a real gearbox then it would be something special. Regardless of lap times. How much does a number have to do with how fun your car is to drive on the street? A f2007 is twice as fast around any track then both cars, so… ha ha. What’s with the American mentality leading into the Japanese? The whole I’m better keeping up with the Joneses I guess. To see the size comparison really gives you some perspective. This keeps on reminding me of what it would be like for Porsche to put a v8 in the 911. I’m sure it would be faster in terms of power but the car would not be a 911 any more. This car will sell more magazines and cause more media hype then Nissan will actually sell cars. An advertising stunt or technical challenge at best. At the end of the day it’s still a ridiculously expensive Nissan with little soul. Can we put all this redundant crap in a Nissan forum please?
#41
03-25-2008, 12:12 PM
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I know that NISSAN was totally focused on the Turbo in it's design of the GT-R but are they really the same buyer? I mean I would never consider buying a GT-R not even if it wasnt a close contest performance wise. Even if the GT-R had another 100 hp I still wouldnt consider the GT-R. I just dont see Turbo buyers changing their mind & buying a GT-R, not the vast majority of them anyway. So I know Nissan was using the Turbo as their bench-mark as others have always done & will always do in the future but the GT-R is more competition for a car like the Vette isnt it? I could see the Vette buyer considering the GT-R or even the Mustang GT buyer but anyone that fully understands Porsche & still choosing a GT-R instead of a Turbo? I just dont see it. The whole boy racer thing, the suped up Supra the drifting scene that kind of buyer isnt the same as the majority of Turbo owners. Sure the boy racer types get older and become Porsche guys but I would just feel strange as a 40 yr old guy driving a hopped up Datsun. It would have been a car I would have considered for myself say 15 or 20 yrs ago or even could see my son driving a GT-R when he's old enough to get his license but know I just wouldnt get that same feeling I get now when driving my Turbo as driving the Nissan. Also wasnt the Z06 another car that was to dethrone the Turbo? If that was the case then why would Nissan be using the Turbo as their bench-mark? When all the GT-R hype dies down the next car that will also suppose to "dominate" will be compared against the Turbo as usual not the Z06 or the GT-R.
Last edited by RTEAMSTRADALE; 03-25-2008 at 12:24 PM.
#42
03-25-2008, 12:32 PM
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The GTR is huge...no doubt. Thats what happens when you take a Japanese car and "Americanize it"...ugh.....still one of my fav cars out right now tho. 
#44
03-25-2008, 12:46 PM
the gallardo was in production before the R8. so its the other way around. the R8 has Gallarado influences
#45
03-25-2008, 01:27 PM
i hate it when my car gets outperformed by another car at half its price. what can i do about it? upgrades till im comfortable with the performance or go out and buy the cheaper car? in the end there's always something faster,something that looks better and something cheaper. we all get in where we can. if that means a gtr so be it. if it means an enzo so be it. cant we all get along and grow up?