Pics & Review of My Bilstein PSS10 Lowered Red Turbo
#181
02-07-2010, 02:26 PM
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Palos Verdes
Posts: 3,116
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Can-your reviews are absolutely amazing to read and quite interesting. i have a 09tt stock and use it as a DD and was wondering what to do to make the car more exciting and you seem to have very informative answers. The porsche dealer here in hawaii discouraged adding bilsteins and ecu tuning saying that Porsche does it right and there is no need for that stuff.
Where do you notice the big difference in handling with the bilsteins, on highway driving? How does the GIAC tune go from stock to tune and back?
Where do you notice the big difference in handling with the bilsteins, on highway driving? How does the GIAC tune go from stock to tune and back?
Just kidding. Porsche does it right but they target US dentists (kidding again & no offense intended), and therefore the stock Turbo behaves and sounds like a Lexus. The dealer might also change their mind if they know Bilstein also makes the OEM stock shock absorber so this is about as close to a factory approved mod as you could ever find.The difference in handling is on both curvy back roads and freeway, meaning always. The transformation will be startling. Don't forget to add front negative camber and consider slight front toe out.
The GIAC ECU mod is changed back to stock by a simple push of a button on a control module. I leave this module permanently connected to the OBD port so I could change it back and forth. There are a number of good ECU tunes out there, but I am the type who likes to compare (plus I want to make sure that the mod is unquestionably better than stock, and want to maintain stock mode) so this feature is a must for me.
Last edited by cannga; 02-07-2010 at 02:28 PM.
#182
02-07-2010, 02:58 PM
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#184
02-11-2010, 09:07 AM
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Palos Verdes
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Mandatory reading regarding Bilstein's installation:
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...bilsteins.html
There is a cone washer that could be missed during installation of the front coilover, and if so, the shaft (of the upper mount pin) could literally snap in half.
The washer is an OEM part that belongs to the car's own suspension that needs to be re-used. Even though this washer is unlikely to be missed if someone with experience is installing the suspension, perhaps Bilstein should provide the washer with their kit and extra warning on this issue? (Don't debate here -- go to that thread.)
Thanks to drkbrent for posting this important thread!
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...bilsteins.html
There is a cone washer that could be missed during installation of the front coilover, and if so, the shaft (of the upper mount pin) could literally snap in half.
The washer is an OEM part that belongs to the car's own suspension that needs to be re-used. Even though this washer is unlikely to be missed if someone with experience is installing the suspension, perhaps Bilstein should provide the washer with their kit and extra warning on this issue? (Don't debate here -- go to that thread.
)Thanks to drkbrent for posting this important thread!
Last edited by cannga; 02-11-2010 at 09:42 AM.
#187
03-10-2010, 07:32 PM
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Palos Verdes
Posts: 3,116
Rep Power: 254
I have been asked several times about ride height measurement so think it's time to share what I've learned, with pictures. That's right... everything you ever want to know about ride height measurement. As always, this has been a cooperative effort (Alex's tuner provided stock Turbo's ride height that I couldn't find anywhere else, bbywu posted the diagram, etc.) and thanks to all who have contributed. Any pro lurking, if you see any error, please let me know. First some reference numbers for what the stock ride heights should be: stock turbo 132mm front/153mm rear, GT2 110/147. (My car is set to 120/141.)
Ride height is a most important parameter in suspension adjustment, yet the way that most of us measure it, fender height to ground, is grossly inaccurate. I too was guilty. The official way to measure is actually very simple and takes minutes. This is a key parameter to measure PRIOR to installation of the Bilstein. I did not do it and to this day wonder what my car's original ride height was.
FYI and one more important piece of info: For the Turbo, Bilstein's official recommendation is that ride heights be reduced 10mm-30 mm in the front, and 5mm-25mm in the rear. That is, they actually recommend that you do not use stock ride height, and that at least you should try to lower 5mm.
The risk of not lowering enough is coil bind, the risk of lowering too much (beyond 30mm) is hitting internal bump stops. Either would be a dangerous situation (very little or no compliance at all) in either situation.
If you stay within specs, then both dampening rates and spring rates should not change with ride height. In other words, in a properly installed Bilstein system, ride height doesn't change spring/damper/ride/compliance characteristic. Any change in handling would be from the advantage of lowered center of gravity, and not change in the coilover system per se.
Keep in mind also, that if you are to do corner balancing, the ride height might no longer be equal from corner to corner. This is because, AFAIK, corner balancing's goal is to make the weight/force at RF + LR = LF + RR, with driver weight in the car. And the way to make these sums equal is by adjusting the ride height at each corner.
So... to start first the official diagram from Porsche is below. Using this diagram the stock Turbo height should be 132 mm front/153mm rear, stock GT2 for comparison 110/147.
As always, this has been a cooperative effort (Alex's tuner provided stock Turbo's ride height that I couldn't find anywhere else, bbywu posted the diagram, etc.) and thanks to all who have contributed. Any pro lurking, if you see any error, please let me know. First some reference numbers for what the stock ride heights should be: stock turbo 132mm front/153mm rear, GT2 110/147. (My car is set to 120/141.)Ride height is a most important parameter in suspension adjustment, yet the way that most of us measure it, fender height to ground, is grossly inaccurate. I too was guilty. The official way to measure is actually very simple and takes minutes. This is a key parameter to measure PRIOR to installation of the Bilstein. I did not do it and to this day wonder what my car's original ride height was.
FYI and one more important piece of info: For the Turbo, Bilstein's official recommendation is that ride heights be reduced 10mm-30 mm in the front, and 5mm-25mm in the rear. That is, they actually recommend that you do not use stock ride height, and that at least you should try to lower 5mm.
The risk of not lowering enough is coil bind, the risk of lowering too much (beyond 30mm) is hitting internal bump stops. Either would be a dangerous situation (very little or no compliance at all) in either situation.
If you stay within specs, then both dampening rates and spring rates should not change with ride height. In other words, in a properly installed Bilstein system, ride height doesn't change spring/damper/ride/compliance characteristic. Any change in handling would be from the advantage of lowered center of gravity, and not change in the coilover system per se.
Keep in mind also, that if you are to do corner balancing, the ride height might no longer be equal from corner to corner. This is because, AFAIK, corner balancing's goal is to make the weight/force at RF + LR = LF + RR, with driver weight in the car. And the way to make these sums equal is by adjusting the ride height at each corner.
So... to start first the official diagram from Porsche is below. Using this diagram the stock Turbo height should be 132 mm front/153mm rear, stock GT2 for comparison 110/147.
Last edited by cannga; 08-10-2016 at 08:37 PM.
#188
03-10-2010, 07:39 PM
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Palos Verdes
Posts: 3,116
Rep Power: 254
Front ride height is measured from this hexagon-shaped bolt, to the ground. The bolt is not visible, but could be felt through an opening in the plastic tray underneath the car.
#190
05-01-2010, 10:16 AM
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Palos Verdes
Posts: 3,116
Rep Power: 254
I was out driving and testing the stiffer springs that Lucent has put in my car (Bilstein's "Stage 2 by Lucent" ) and decided to take some pictures of my home turf -- the Santa Monica mountains and Mulholland Highway. For the photography buffs out there: Camera: Canon 1D; lenses: Canon 35mm f/1.4L, Contax Distagon 21mm f/2.8. Pics shot in RAW format & developed with Phase One/Capture One.
Note that Mulholland is now not necessarily the first choice to flex the Turbo's muscles and I normally go elsewhere. Nevertheless, it is closest to LA and there are still sections that are among the very best Porsche roads anywhere. A drive here could still be quite taxing, depending on the level of driving and how long.
You could probably tell a car tuned for this type of road would have to have minimal body roll, and that's why I experimented with putting stiffer springs on the car, as recommended by Bilstein & my tuner, Tom of Lucent, Los Angeles. Essentially the goal is "near GT3 handling and stiffness, with Turbo power and 4WD, and some degree of daily driver civility ;-)" and I think we've been successful. The stock Bilstein is STILL the best compromise for a daily driver and is still the best for 90% of people; but for the few of us who would want to explore further, IMHO stiffer springs are a good trade-off and in this case do bring *utterly fantastic* corner hugging prowess and speed
.
Click here to see map of the roads.
From mountain, looking down to main road:
My baby, ready to pounce:
) and decided to take some pictures of my home turf -- the Santa Monica mountains and Mulholland Highway. For the photography buffs out there: Camera: Canon 1D; lenses: Canon 35mm f/1.4L, Contax Distagon 21mm f/2.8. Pics shot in RAW format & developed with Phase One/Capture One.Note that Mulholland is now not necessarily the first choice to flex the Turbo's muscles and I normally go elsewhere. Nevertheless, it is closest to LA and there are still sections that are among the very best Porsche roads anywhere. A drive here could still be quite taxing, depending on the level of driving and how long.
You could probably tell a car tuned for this type of road would have to have minimal body roll, and that's why I experimented with putting stiffer springs on the car, as recommended by Bilstein & my tuner, Tom of Lucent, Los Angeles. Essentially the goal is "near GT3 handling and stiffness, with Turbo power and 4WD, and some degree of daily driver civility ;-)" and I think we've been successful. The stock Bilstein is STILL the best compromise for a daily driver and is still the best for 90% of people; but for the few of us who would want to explore further, IMHO stiffer springs are a good trade-off and in this case do bring *utterly fantastic* corner hugging prowess and speed
.Click here to see map of the roads.
From mountain, looking down to main road:
My baby, ready to pounce:
Last edited by cannga; 05-01-2010 at 10:48 AM.
#194
05-03-2010, 09:49 AM
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Palos Verdes
Posts: 3,116
Rep Power: 254
Greg thanks.
Chris, on weekends, forget it, but it's so pretty that one could drive within the limits of the law
and still have a blast.
There are several other moutain & canyon roads in Los Angeles; Mulholland is not necessarily the first choice. It is the closest and arguably the most picturesque though (because of the ocean view). A couple more shots:
Not good to go off here either.
Nothing to do with the car, or the drive, just mountain flowers:
Chris, on weekends, forget it, but it's so pretty that one could drive within the limits of the law
and still have a blast.There are several other moutain & canyon roads in Los Angeles; Mulholland is not necessarily the first choice. It is the closest and arguably the most picturesque though (because of the ocean view). A couple more shots:
Not good to go off here either.
Nothing to do with the car, or the drive, just mountain flowers:
Last edited by cannga; 05-03-2010 at 10:04 AM.
