Can, first a thank you for a very in depth discussion of suspension changes. I learned a lot.

Was curious, did you ever install the rear toe links? Seems like as you mentioned, most tuners do recommend them and I would be curious for your thoughts on differences (if any) that you noticed.

Thanks in advance.

 

honestly it looks stock. love red though. black rims please.

 

Speedyellow, thank. Jim you're welcome and it's a pleasure to know someone actually finds my interminable rambling helpful.

Yes the rear toe link is unique in that it is one of the few after-market suspension components that has a universal recommendation from tuners I've talked to (as opposed to the rear upper link aka dog bone for example). Supposedly, risk of noise/harshness is minimal, while benefit of rear end stability during cornering is significant. There are a few reasons why I don't have it in my car:

1. My car is daily driver, and as currently set up with R compound tire and stiffer spring (my spring rates are 565 front/565 rear, versus standard Bilstein 340 front/565 rear), is at the upper most border of stiffness that I would accept. It feels fantastic as is and I don't want to touch it.

2. At the speed that I drive the car, not really straight line fast but a lot of canyon type roads at high cornering speed, I do not feel any rear instability. Especially since I add the Pirelli Corsa R compound tires (I believe! Like magic!!).

3. The after-market rear toe link uses solid metallic link (aka heim joint, aka rod end bearing) and all these types of link wear over time, how fast I don't know, but certainly faster than the stock rubber link. In other words, if you have these things, it's a good idea to keep an eye on them and change them when they become loose or make noise. So even assuming adding it causes no harm, the more demanding long term maintenance makes me hesitate, especially as I am not a handy "car guy" like some on this forum.

BTW, the stiffer spring upgrade is simple, Lucent simply orders an extra set of rear Bilstein spring and uses it for the front, without the helper spring. With stiffer spring, my Turbo has remarkable cornering speed, much closer to GT2/GT3 level; the steering is much firmer and better than stock as well; I very highly recommend it for anyone with a good tuner.

 

Thanks for the detailed response Can. Exactly the insight I was looking for. Much appreciated.

 

love it.

 

An update on what probably is the final mod to my Turbo's suspension system: Tire change from stock Michelin Pilot Sport (a street tire) to Pirelli Corso (street legal race tire, aka R compound). Talk about ending with a bang.
Before the change, I was silently very skeptical of how much difference R compound tires would make in street driving. I just had a hard time imagining how a different rubber could bond so much better to a street surface that is so imperfect. Well for this amateur it has been a completely eye-opening experience; the R compound Pirelli's truly and really, stick like crazy glue.

Not that I am such a particularly fast driver (a recent chase of a semi professional driver in a GT3 made that abundantly clear - those guys are crazy good ), but my pastime is to drive the car in canyon roads around LA, and the main problem with Michelin Sport is that as my baby becomes stiffer and comes into corner faster and faster, it starts to do 4 wheel power slide more. With the Pirelli cup tire, it's now back to the way it should be: my skill is the limiting factor, not the tires, ha-ha, more or less. The bothersome rear-end lateral movement/twitchiness as I accelerate out of corners (I would humbly admit I may not be the best at doing this.), remarkably just *disappears*. I mean, DISAPPEAR! The car sticks as if held down by the hands of Buddha.

Regarding the 3 points of concern before I switch the tires:
1. Stiffness: Not that big of a difference at all. Maybe a little stiffer, but not a night and day difference, and most definitely not a deal breaker.
2. Noise: Again, surprisingly, hardly any difference. Maybe the cup tire is a little more noisy, but again not much and not a night and day difference.
Think of how the tires are different, then maybe my observation will make sense. The R compound tires do have stiffer wall (stiff and noisy), but the stickier rubber compound AFAIK is actually softer and more quiet. The net effect is when you go over a bump for example, the car jumps more, but the noise is a more subdued thump.
3. Wet performance, or lack thereof LOL: I've had a couple of moments of "holy sh*t" with these tires on wet spot - not with this car, but with a GT3 with Michelin PS Cup. I have driven this car through some light rain, and have found that if I drive intelligently (slow down when it rains, and don't brake abruptly in a wet curve, stuffs like that ), it's ok for an area like Southern Cal to use this tire year round. Nevertheless, the danger with wet roads, and/or cold tire, is real. Be cautious.

In short, for dry road and once properly warmed up,I love these tires and cannot think of switching back.The change to R compound tires has been one of the MOST SIGNIFICANT, yet easiest, "mods" to my Turbo baby. If you haven't tried these tires before, know that it will be nothing short of a revelation. (I also have some comments on matching stiff tires to suspension settings that I'll add later. Basically, not a good idea to put stiff tires on the soft suspension of the stock Turbo, as the stiff side wall of R compound tires and higher cornering speed will "over-load" the soft springs. While it's ok to use these tires with stock Turbo suspension, it's a good idea to switch to a proper coilover system like KW or Bilstein first.)

 

That looks GREAT

 

Your car is simply the best looking 997 Turbo I have seen and the front tech art spoiler / lip does wonders. Any additional pics would be appreciated. I am a 996 Turbo guy and I aspire to add a 997 Turbo in a few years. Absolutely gorgeous photos!

 

Interesting Can
I felt that way when I went from Bridgestones to the PS2s! Very interesting...may be worth trying next time I need tires.

 

Beautiful pictures, thanks for the great shots! Your car looks awesome.

 

Thanks guys for the nice comments. raclaims, some other interesting tire data: I posted some tire weights on rennteam, will bring the post here, but very interesting and amazing the weight differences between tires. http://www.rennteam.com/forum/thread...html#p20176993

gregporsche, thanks. Hope you'll join the club sooner rather than later! I don't remember which pic I've posted anymore since I've "sprinkled" them all over the thread. Maybe this one:

 

Here is my informal tire weight ranking, courtesy of Tire Rack's Tires for Porsche 997 Turbo 235/35-19 front, 305/30-19 rear (pls correct any mistake as needed).

The number in bold are the weights of one front plus one rear tire:
Michelin Cup: front/rear 20/27 = 47 lbs
Pirelli Corsa: 21/26 = 47
Continental Extreme Contact DW: 21/28 = 49
Hoosier R6 (not street tire, 315/30-19 rear): 22/27 = 49
Michelin PS2: 22/28 = 50
Continental SportContact 3: 22/28 = 50
Pirelli Rosso: 22/29 = 51
Bridgestone RE050A: 24/31 = 55
Hantook Ventus V12: 24/32=56
Toyo R888: 25/31 = 56
Bridgestone RE11: 27/32 = 59

Interesting, no? A weight difference of 24 lbs, such as from Michelin/Pirelli cup to Bridgestone RE11, cannot and should not be ignored. Another interesting example: a Turbo with iron brake and RE11 will have what, close to 60 lbs. more in unsprung weight than one with PCCB and Michelin Cup?
I am surprised that in my reading of tire comparisons on various forums, I've not run across more discussions of this extremely important parameter of tire weight. Does no one CARE about precession?

 

[quote=cannga;3039989]An update on what probably is the final mod to my Turbo's suspension system: Tire change from stock Michelin Pilot Sport (a street tire) to Pirelli Corso (street legal race tire, aka R compound). Talk about ending with a bang.

I'd be curious about what sort of tire wear you will experience. With "R" compound rubber wouldn't your tires wear much faster?

 

your car is unreal. i would love to make these mods. i am bringing it up to porsche of orlando next week. i just purchased some corforged.com 20" wheels with 325 rear tires. what do you recommend in affordable and must have mods?

 

Larry, I will report for sure in the future, but so far the wear of the Pirelli cup has been much better than expected. I am sure those who track the car or are faster drivers than I am will report differently, but for my driving (mostly street, occasional "reasonably" sporty driving in canyon roads in LA), I am expecting about 10k miles for the rear tire, and more for the front. In comparison, I changed my rear Michelin PS2 at oh maybe 13k or so.

I was going to switch back from the Pirelli cup to regular street tire in the winter, but now I am addicted to it and plan to have it year around. It's actually ok for me in the rain, as long as I drive smartly and with caution (absolutely no braking in a wet corner, taking curves in higher gear, etc.). In the dry, the "adhesion" difference is truly eye opening and addictive and now I understand why people sometimes say tire is the most important suspension "component."