+1

Anyone want to know what the spring rates are on those Damptronics?

The front main spring is 285 lbs, and the rears are 570 lbs.

Not to be picky or anything, but if you were really going to convert the 997TT into track car (which we know it is not), Damptronics are a mediocre choice.

 

Chris,

Wait a minute. But earlier on your conclusion was:

>>>>>>>>>>
Stock for Stock, the 997TT HAS NO CHANCE WHATSOEVER versus a stock GT-R. GT-R versus a modded 997TT would be a driver's race.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Now that people are starting to question your car, and in fact your whole evaluation method, are you saying: Not really, a better driver would in fact show the modded Turbo to be better?

You appear to be a very knowledgeable car guy, but I don't know if you are realizing statements are being made that cause people to question your car, driving skill, setup, evaluation method, bias, everything.

Maybe it's time to enjoy that GREAT and fast but ugly and heavy GT-R (there I just summarize the last 2000 posts ), instead of wasting time on these tiresome (pesky?) posts and cross posts? Maybe time to give it a rest and leave it to the pro's for the evaluation?

Sign,
Porsche "Fanboy" (Is that the word?)

 

I think he was trying to say for the average driver, GTR is faster than TT if the both cars were stock.

 

Exactly. I don't know about you guys, but I buy cars so I can drive them, not to hand keys to a pro and watch with a stopwatch.

Stock for Stock (for sure for me, and I still claim for a pro): GT-R wins

Versus my modded TT: about even, perhaps a tiny edge to the TT, but a drivers race.

GT-R with pro driver versus my modded TT with pro driver: I would hope the pro driver could use more of my HP and smoke the GT-R.

A great driver in a 996TT or a Miata can probably beat me in either car, but that is not my point. I am trying to provide some real world impressions from a real person who uses the cars in the way I suspect many folks here do.

Perhaps I am being confusing, but I think I am being consistent.

Also, to answer some other Qs: I do have PCCBs. Finally, TT was on MSPC tires, GT-R was on the stock Potenzas-- which have decent grip but feel more like PS2s than Cups.

 

LOL, that's pathetic for spring rates, I tried looking them up but couldnt find them. Not even close to being enough for a 700 hp car.

Anyways, Bruno Senna ran them to almost identical rain times, he thinks the GT-R may have been a little faster in the dry which tells me that the GT-R has more dry oriented tires, which we already knew, and more aggressive alignment which takes a toll in wet weather, and the tires, which last 5k miles, which has to be the shortest ever for a street car.


Point being, this loose judgement of 700 hp vs stock GT-R is not even close to being an accurate representation of the cars capabilities. It doesnt take anywhere near 700hp to beat a GT-R in a TT. It takes some skill, and at the most, an increase in camber and equal tires.

 

I've offered my humble "same day, same track, same driver" tests. Lots of mags have tested GT-R versus 997TT and gotten similar results.

Is there any data anywhere that shows the 997TT in stock or near-stock trim being meaningfully faster than GT-R (or faster at all) around any track with any driver under any conditions?

Please share.

 

Um well, when Nissan were testing them, the TT was within a second ahead or behind the GT-R at US tracks. Most tests are within a delta of 1-2 seconds, some with poor tires on the TT, some with a Tiptronic, some with both, some with the TT drifting, but almost every one with 1-2 seconds.

Considering the GT-R has that much time advantage in tires alone, for you to say that a stock TT has no chance whatsoever is contradictory to even the mags you are reffering to. 1-2 seconds by a pro guy is a drivers "race" at any DE, especially considering many of the TT's have come with poor alignment specs that have made the handling twitchy.


All I'm saying is that in your excitement for the GT-R you've lost site of reality.

 

that's ok...

the V-Spec has been spotted starting testing at the 'Ring, and supposedly due for a Paris Autoshow introduction



100HP more than the GTR, and supposedly lighter. them brakes look plenty beefy too. car's not any prettier though, that's for sure!

it should be comfortably faster than the Turbo, while being less expensive than the GT2.

GT2 will probably be faster though... the 998 GT2 that is!

(ok ok, i'm kidding! )

 

The problem is that most drivers want to have adjustable coilovers that are compatible with PASM...very few are willing to give up the electronic function or have someone with PIWIS shut it off in the ECU.

That being said, there are only 2 choices for compatible systems...either Bilstein, or a tuner that uses Bilstein's revalved. Regardless, they are hardly enough for the weight of the car, say nothing for the 700HP.

 

The problem with the power is that if it's not controlled, it makes the car scary. I think if the car were stock power, the suspension would be okay since it's better than stock, but with all that power, the squating under accleration, and inability to put your foot in it when exiting corners, partially negates the advantage of AWD, which is being able to get on the power earlier when exiting corners. The squating, other than unnerving the driver, lightens the front end of the car, making it push, when it finally settles, it will go directly to oversteer, making it unpredictable and scary to drive, especially for a non pro.

Which is why I say the car would be better off with stock power and that suspension.

 

700 hp in combination with a modest suspension is going to be a bad combination on some tracks. I just got back from my first time at MSR Cresson and I had to dial back my ECU and take off overboost. I could not stay out of trouble with that much power on such a technical track.

 

Are you still using Damptronics? I wonder if the springs can be changed.

 

Bobby,

I spoke to Bilstein at length prior to installing the PSS10, the official word is similar to what has been said here: The PSS10 Damptronic is designed for drivers who use the car mostly for the streets, with very occasional (meaning non-serious) track usage. For the track veterans, Bilstein actually suggests "more aggressive" Bilstein offerings or, as an alternative, changing the springs to something stiffer. In other words, yes to your question, with of course some limitations as to how much stiffer the new springs could be, to be still useable with the PSS10 dampening rates.

As far as why so many use Bilstein, I think PASM compatibility is only one reason. The other, perhaps more important one is: For those who use the car as a daily driver, the 285/570 rates strike a perfect balance between stiff enough to be aggressive and not too stiff to be bone-rattling uncomfortable. After all, this is the uniqueness of the Turbo -- a near supercar-class daily-driver. From my own experience, driving to work daily in Los Angeles, I actually would NOT want the spring rates to be any stiffer than the 285/570. But I am aware this is a matter of personal preference so YMMV.

That said, if I were to have 700 hp, and I am to challenge another excellent track car, then as heavychevy/eclou/you have pointed out: Perhaps Chris should change his coilovers before any further testing.

 

Thanks for the info Can...

 

Chris, I should clarify, I am just making a point and actually am NOT advocating any more testing!!! There is nothing new here that we are being told about stock Turbo. As far as modded Turbo testing, I really think the test should be left to someone with more professional experience, as has been pointed out here.

I cringe to think that with the money spent for a modded Turbo, plus a Nissan GT-R, one could buy a GT-2. The true king of the track, plus pretty, light, classy. Hmm....