Here's what I think about all this. First, no one needs to defend Porsche. Wasn't the 997TT meant for cruising the autobahn at insane speeds and was never really meant to be a track star? Nissan spends seven years building a car that's maybe a second or two faster around the track than Porsche's grand tourer. I've no doubt that Porsche could have built a techno packed car that does the driving for you, but that is never what the Porsche loyal wanted. If us Porsche fans beef too much about the GT-R, Porsche might just turn the 911 into a car that makes up for lack of driving talent, but is that what we want? I don't think so. Keep it up, and next year the 911 will be parallel parking it's self! I think we lose sight of the big picture, too. While other marks have been creating cars that burn up the 'ring, Porsche has been focusing on building cars that bring us more horsepower with less pollutants and fuel consumption. Knowing the new CAFE standards that are right around the corner, I think Porsche has been focusing on the right things here lately. Now that Porsche has the might and resources of Europe's biggest auto maker behind them, I'd say that us Porsche fans will have a lot of great things to look forward to (like the 998). These are great times for Porsche. They don't need anyone to defend them.

 

The GT-R has alignment options from the factory, a street alignment or a track one, so if they can do it, then everyone else should be able to as well. Just have the dealer give you the most agressive alignment they can, I follow your point, but I think this is a case where it would be ok. The GT-R alignment nets 5k from the tires, so that tells you the aggressiveness of the alignment and the softness of the tire compound. So as long as no mods are added, I think it's fair.

I agree also that Porsche wanted to leave extra room for the GT2 to comfortably be ahead without it keeping the widowmaker monaker. With all this new stuff coming out, I doubt it will take the 998 to see significantly faster stuff from Porsche.

Whether or not the stuff is good is the question, I trust Porsche engineering, but if they deviate from the stuff they know works for a new engine that's shared with the base carrera and add DSG, it could get iffy. FASTER for sure (they'd be insane not to make it that way). But still iffy.

 

What's even worse is that based on tests so far, if you beleive them, the GT-R is two seconds faster than a TT on PS2's and one second faster than a GT2 on MPSC.

So theoretically based on those tests, the TT would be faster than the GT2 on equal tires.

Does that make sense to anyone?

 

chrisn - what suspension are you running? You have the Bilstein Damptronics?

I am not an expert enough to chime in on this but I am an expert enough to understand it and read it YAY ME!

My other question for those who knows. DES I am sure you will chime in on it

I understand stock for stock but the Turbo was not built as a track warrior as much as the GT-R was. Given that understanding by tuning the Turbo's suspension to be Track orientated like the GT-R with Coilovers, Lowered Height, MPSC's and sways would it be fair to comlete then? I know you said stock for stock but since you can't put the GT3/RS into the same HP range it would be a better comparison to put the GT3/RS type of suspension into the Turbo and make the comparison no?

 

So what...that's like 1 post every 20 days...Last parting shot...hasta...

 

bobby too funny. I m a noob

 

I see what you are saying. Kinda like Id like to see how a Z06 would do against the 08 Viper if it had equal PS2's.

 

Doh. I always forget that post count is the measure of a man

 

I mean if you think about it, how hard would it be to put a heavy duty DSG in the TT, get some specially made high grip (short life) tires, and a GT3 RS suspension with an aggressive alignment? Not hard at all, and it would run circles around a GT-R. Even without a DSG.

Porsche has never been about ultimate track speed, but always about the driver experience. The GT3 has never been the fastest car around, but always one of the most fun, challenging and driver developing.

And the GT2 would have it's toes stepped on big time, and make it very hard to sell a RWD 200k version of the same car (suspension and all). So it doesnt make much business sense.

Porsche is not Nissan, and doesnt need gimmicks to sell their cars, they dont need to parade around behind a Ferrari or Lambo for months on end, and have Best Motoring test the car with them to prove anything.

The TT will sell no matter what. So there is no need to merge it with the GT2 and eliminate the market for the GT2 altogether.

 

Makes perfect sense to me.

It takes a long time for a car to earn a reputation, and it has to do it on the road and on the track. Yes, Skylines have been around for a while, but this new one is too different to be able to draw many conclusion about it at the moment. If it puts Porsche out of business in 5 years, then I guess it is as great as the fanboys say it is. If it starts defeating Porsches in legitimate, sanctioned races (not talking about weekend club events) then I guess it is as great as they say it is. IMHO, neither scenario is likely to happen. Porsche knows this business pretty damn well.

 

Truer words have not been spoken. These "my car is faster" reviews are devoid of assessments of other parameters that are so critical: road feedback, chassis & steering feel, how that VERY VERY LARGE 3900 lbs weight affects the feel of the car. I get a sense of speed of the admittedly well eningeered car, but never a feeling of "fun." There is one single message, repeated ad nauseum, "my car is fast at the track."

What I don't understand is this peculiar need for Nissan owners to "spread the message" on Porsche forums. My guess is that it's a strange desire for re-assurance from "the real things," the Porsche guys. Invariably, said owners get upset and blame "snobbery" when the truth is told, and that is, all things considered, it's *still* not a Porsche.

 

GT-R has more tendency to understeer, but is a very very very fun car to drive on the track and on backroads. In the city, it is a bit of a pain.

997TT is more fun on the street, where the otherworldly TQ makes me smile everytime I drop the hammer. On track, however, I find the 997TT a bit scary on the edge (or what I perceive as the edge).

Some would embrace what I call "fear" as a challenge and call a lack of fear "detachment." Good for them. Maybe they are just more manly than me.

GT-R inspires confidence, allowing medium-skilled drivers like me to quickly get a lot out of the car.

I would bet that if you took a 10 guys who had 3-4 track days but were familiar with neither car (maybe they are coming from an E46 M3 or something) and put them in the GT-R and then the 997TT, the vast majority would be FASTER in the GT-R AND report having more fun and less fear.

These things are subjective of course.

I've never said the GT-R was "better" than a 997TT, and I understand that speed around a track is not everything. In fact, I've said before and will repeat: cost aside, if I had to pick one of the two to be my only sports car, it would be the 997TT.

Finally, along with lap times, chassis, steering feel, etc., there is another factor that most normal folks often think seriously about when considering a car: price.

 

That doesn't apply here though, the posts by chrisn are all about reporting on his experience with his 997TT as compared to the GTR and he has given his feedback on both cars with various details. If you look at what he is saying it is completely in context here.

And really, perhaps you are seeing what to see, lots of GTR owners (myself included) and automotive reviewers are reporting on just how fun and engaging the car is. Really, going from street use of a 997s among other past cars the GTR really has fantastic steering feel, handling ,etc, don't let the weight fool you, and as it mostly is rear wheel drive it feels different then you might expect from an AWD vehicle.

Anyway, I just thought chrisn as an owner of both cars is contributing a lot to the forums and is not just 'spreading the message' for the GTR as stated - of course it is all subjective and variable but worthwhile and interesting to read about nonetheless. As for 'the real things' lol, that would be car enthusiasts like chrisn in my opinion, not defensive brand fanatics or fanboys of any kind.

 

Chris,

Have you posted this on the GT-R forum, about 20 times in 20 different threads? Your enthusiasm for the GT-R is understandable, it's a great car for the money (that dreadful qualification). But the multiple threads are getting tiresome, not bringing any thing new that many of us don't already know (Porsche 911, edgy? No way. We don't know that engine is hanging way back there, do we?) and many of the points, as heavy chevy has pointed out and you are not responding to, are very much debatable.

As for that "other" GT-R owner, the more you are here reading and posting, the more you are proving my point about "spreading the message" amd reassurance from the real things.

 

Really, like many others I read all around the forums here and always have no matter what kind of car I have at the time, I like reading about cars what can I say - and when I read your statements including "I get a sense of speed of the admittedly well eningeered car, but never a feeling of "fun." felt like addressing that considering my personal experience, reviews and other posts I have seen, as well as remark about chrisn's posts as they related to your comments and basically saying that he was merely trying to spread a message.

Discussing things on topic is not seeking approval or seeking reassurance, it is just the grist of forums, if it is tiresome there is always the option not to read it And hell, what else is a car forum going to be but tire-some