http://jalopnik.com/5115647/samurai-...-at-drag-strip



http://jalopnik.com/5061221/gt+r-own...under-warranty

 

I actually said that VDC in R Mode was less intrusive than PSM, particularly so in tighter corners, in my experience. Obviously, never having driven a GT-R, your opinion is worthless.

Re clueless - I think you'll find someone more deserving of that moniker closer to home.

It might be a start for you to actually acknowledge where your points have been addressed and closed rather than ignoring them and moving on to more insults.

The track time was scored by the instructors rather than being based on timing, although that is entirely irrelevant to the facts in hand.

For clarity, the autocross GT-R was actually a LHD US-spec car now I think about it.

As for racing series, the GT-R is clearly a road car and was not designed with a particular FIA category in mind (hence 4WD etc.). The presence of a car in a racing series has absolutely zero relevance to driving one on the road. Saying that, I don't see many Caymans in GT racing either.

 

15 more pages to go. The most interesting dollop of info on this page is a link to the new 2010 Taurus SHO in the Jalopnik site above

 

did you not watch the video of the GTR breaking at the track?

 

well, it was on here about 20 pages ago

 

yes, but since these guys keep repeating their crap over and over, so will I. This thread has gotten way to long and no one is going back to catch up.

 

The electronic gizmos were designed to save a driver's A$$ when driving on the street. Orginially, they were a safety net, not a Driver's aid.

As the gizmo's developed... Porsche, BMW, and GM with their Corvette, were able to "fine-tune" the electronics, enabling a driver to drive in "competitive mode" (reducing the effect of electronic intervention), which does help the newbe @ the track.

The "flip side" to using these electronic aids is that it allows a newbe to make mistakes and remain on the track, encouaging him to drive faster.

With the power... and handling available when using the gizmos... some drivers far exceed their ability, before the Laws of Physics take the car into the Armco.

Relying on Electronic Gizmo's to correct your mistakes is a crutch, and eventually the crutch will slip... and BOOM... bad things will happen.

 

HC: We are saying the OPPOSITE I think. I am saying that, in theory, a well designed computer system should make EVERYONE faster-- not just "correct for mistakes. In the real world, I think pro drivers can get a bit more out of a car with traction control off. But this does not prove your point (that computers can only slow you down).

I'm actually not sure if the systems sometimes "gently" intervenes without flashing the dash light. If it always flashed the light, then I am wrong. Someone prob knows the answer for both PSM and VDC.

I would still assert that an optimal computer system individually controlling braking at each corner and adjusting TQ split a hundred times a second should allow any car to get around a corner as fast or faster than the fastest driver. It's just logic: more controls always help, since you don't have to use them.

My point is that I think the GT-R has gotten closer to the goal of having the systems HELP you go faster while not slowing down a really good driver.

In any case, both PSM and VDC (hen in Sport or "R" modes) are already excellent and I think 90%+ of casual track day drivers will leave on and won't find it intrusive.

I know a guy (not F1) who does 2:03/2:04s at Thill (old surface) in a lightly modded 996TT and he leaves PSM on. The 997 systems are even better/less intrusive.

 

For the really good driver, the cars are faster with the electronic gismos turned OFF !!!

That's a FACT !!! And it's also the reason why Nissan switched em off on the GT-R @ the Ring.

For the average driver... the Gismo's can be a driver's aid... but in allowing him to go faster...

the average driver will wind up futher off track when the Laws of Physics are exceeded.

 

I disagree with that statement from an enthusiast perspective. The Cayman could easily sit on the grid in the SCCA. The GT-R would be uncompetitive.

I have no doubt the GT-R is quicker around a track than the 997 Turbo. It's suspension tuning/handling set-up and aids, gearing, underrated power, etc all point to this.

However, do you believe the sub 7:40 'Ring times were representative of a production-spec car?

 

The GT-R is faster around the track than a Cayman--- why would it be "uncompetitive." I think a fresh set of tires/pads would be fine for a single race, although consumables would certainly be more per lap than a Cayman-- but you would win the race. Cayman has its own issues that would need to be addresses for serious racing: oil ingestion, power steering overheat, no LSD, sub par suspension/alignment.

Regarding Ring times, the 7:38 lap is what Nissan initially promoted and even refer to it in the owners manual. I really don't have a basis for saying if sub 7:40 would be "representative" of stock car. I guess I don't see why not. 7:38 is easier to believe than 7:29 (which also may be true, but does seem unlikely).

 

Chrisn, obviously the GT-R and cayman wouldn't be in the same class. But an SCCA runoffs race is an hour long, there is a chance the GT-R could run out of consumables by the end of the race running full titlt for an hour.

Put a GT-R in a T1 class and let it run with the C5Z's, Ferrari's and Vipers (which I think the vipers have to run at 3700 lbs raceweight too), and it still would have a tough time. It would overheat the tranny and overuse the tires in short order.

 

If overdriven, anyone in any car can overheat tires in an hour. I don't think you could cord the tires or scrub through the pads in an hour on a normal road track (unless you were showboat drifting and not trying to drive fast).

In terms of heat/cooling, you need to be careful, as SCCA often allows mods in this area. Touring Class does not mean 100% stock. 996s for example are allowed to add oil and tranny coolers on a "free" basis. Maybe the GT-R would get a similar accommodation.

 

The Cayman is underpowered purposely by Porsche. I would imagine that the oil injestion is taken care of with the new across the board motors. Give the Cayman the power it deserves, and I'm sure it would hang with anything on the track.

 

There is a good reason why the Cayman is not raced. Remember how well it placed at the 2007 24 hours of Nurburgring? If you don't remember, a Cayman placed 4th overall (the race was won buy a 997) and I believe 6th. Mysteriously, there were no Caymans in the 2008 race. Why? Porsche did not want the possibility of a Cayman showing up a 997, so they threatened to pull support from anyone who ran a Cayman along with a 997.