Offering informed input on Bose system.
#1
12-23-2009, 06:59 PM
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 71
Rep Power: 17 
Offering informed input on Bose system.
Hello. I have read with interest some earlier posts with opinions on the optional Bose system offered on most Porsche models. As this is my first post on this forum as a new owner of a 08 Cayenne, I don't want to come across as arrogant or uniformed in my following comments about the Bose system. So I will start out by pointing out that my background is 35 years of high end audio as well as playing guitar. My understanding of what realistic sound reproduction is all about, is, and should be expected to be very high compared to the man on the street.
I have had 3-4 other Bose systems in GM vehicles as well as several premium systems in BMW's. The Bose systems in both of my Corvette's (01 & 07) were TERRIBLE to the point of unlistenability. The Bose system in my 2004 Chevrolet pickup is surprisingly GOOD with smooth tonal balance and freedom from resonant peaks. This was a small shock to me as most of Bose's consumer products to insiders in my industry are considered to have truly laughable engineering and a reputation to match. Although the BMW systems have a different personality than the Bose in the Chevy pickup, they are decent but still have toned down versions of the same problem that effects the Cayenne Bose system.
The Cayenne system has two very obvious flaws in tonal balance, the first thing and most important thing people notice in reproduced sound. The most serious being an extremely pronounced one note thump to the sound of bass notes that can not be removed effectively by turning down the bass control as it removes all bass frequencies both above and below the offending frequency. It sounds vaguely like a kick drum accompanying all bass notes whether there is a kick drum in the music or not. There is no bass at all below this frequency and also a lack of higher bass notes above it which leads to a thin sounding midrange lacking in natural warmth. I haven't had time to measure the offending frequency range yet but found it to be between 80-150hz on the Corvette Bose system. This bump in the bass response is INTENTIONALLY put there by Bose to impress the general public, most of whom (unfortunately for the rest of us) are tinned ear. This bump could easily be largely mitigated by proper equalization, something already present in the Bose electronics, at no extra cost. The second flaw is (you guessed it) a similar peak in the higher treble frequencies but with less intensity. It causes listener fatigue giving treble a rather spitty presentation that sounds a bit like static or white inter station FM noise being added to the music. Turning the treble down does not fix the problem but does reduce the irritating effect a bit. Incidently, the Bose system I heard in a 2009 911 had the same qualities, if not in fact worse in the bass, something that may point to nasty cabinet resonances.
I saw several comments from people on the forum who dismissed criticisms from more critical listeners with the excuse that the Bose system
is "good enough", a common comment.
This mentality would be more understandable if one were buying a GM or Ford product, etc. However if Porsche saw fit to only put "good enough brakes" or "good enough paint" on their cars they would cease to be a brand discerning customers wished to buy. For a sound system that is a $1400 option, Porsche can and should do better and not by necessarily switching to a different vendor. Bose has the technology to make a very good yet reasonably priced system. Porsche just needs to have some good listeners hold their feet to the fire. Sorry for the long post.
I have had 3-4 other Bose systems in GM vehicles as well as several premium systems in BMW's. The Bose systems in both of my Corvette's (01 & 07) were TERRIBLE to the point of unlistenability. The Bose system in my 2004 Chevrolet pickup is surprisingly GOOD with smooth tonal balance and freedom from resonant peaks. This was a small shock to me as most of Bose's consumer products to insiders in my industry are considered to have truly laughable engineering and a reputation to match. Although the BMW systems have a different personality than the Bose in the Chevy pickup, they are decent but still have toned down versions of the same problem that effects the Cayenne Bose system.
The Cayenne system has two very obvious flaws in tonal balance, the first thing and most important thing people notice in reproduced sound. The most serious being an extremely pronounced one note thump to the sound of bass notes that can not be removed effectively by turning down the bass control as it removes all bass frequencies both above and below the offending frequency. It sounds vaguely like a kick drum accompanying all bass notes whether there is a kick drum in the music or not. There is no bass at all below this frequency and also a lack of higher bass notes above it which leads to a thin sounding midrange lacking in natural warmth. I haven't had time to measure the offending frequency range yet but found it to be between 80-150hz on the Corvette Bose system. This bump in the bass response is INTENTIONALLY put there by Bose to impress the general public, most of whom (unfortunately for the rest of us) are tinned ear. This bump could easily be largely mitigated by proper equalization, something already present in the Bose electronics, at no extra cost. The second flaw is (you guessed it) a similar peak in the higher treble frequencies but with less intensity. It causes listener fatigue giving treble a rather spitty presentation that sounds a bit like static or white inter station FM noise being added to the music. Turning the treble down does not fix the problem but does reduce the irritating effect a bit. Incidently, the Bose system I heard in a 2009 911 had the same qualities, if not in fact worse in the bass, something that may point to nasty cabinet resonances.
I saw several comments from people on the forum who dismissed criticisms from more critical listeners with the excuse that the Bose system
is "good enough", a common comment.
This mentality would be more understandable if one were buying a GM or Ford product, etc. However if Porsche saw fit to only put "good enough brakes" or "good enough paint" on their cars they would cease to be a brand discerning customers wished to buy. For a sound system that is a $1400 option, Porsche can and should do better and not by necessarily switching to a different vendor. Bose has the technology to make a very good yet reasonably priced system. Porsche just needs to have some good listeners hold their feet to the fire. Sorry for the long post.
Last edited by GT3 Chuck; 12-23-2009 at 07:52 PM.
#4
12-24-2009, 08:18 AM
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 71
Rep Power: 17
My listen was much shorter in the 2009 911 S as it was a test drive, but it seemed to have the same basic character and problems as the Cayenne.
I plan to buy a 911 within the next year and will be driving one again and will report back in more detail.
I saw that one of the high end car manufacturers (BMW, I think) now has an optional premium sound system that is IMPULSE CORRECTED, which is very advanced thinking. It involves using digital processing/correction to not just remove frequency response bumps or dips, but to solve time domain and energy storage problems. This is a major problem, especially an issue in a car, where the cabinet that the speaker is mounted in is not the last word in rigidity. When a cabinet resonates excessively, a lot of the sound you hear isn't from the woofer moving, it's from the cabinet "talking" which by definition is distortion. Therefore stored energy can make bass sound boomy even if the frequency response is smooth, linear and flat in amplitude. I'd vote for and pay $3000+ for a properly executed version of this sound system.
I plan to buy a 911 within the next year and will be driving one again and will report back in more detail.
I saw that one of the high end car manufacturers (BMW, I think) now has an optional premium sound system that is IMPULSE CORRECTED, which is very advanced thinking. It involves using digital processing/correction to not just remove frequency response bumps or dips, but to solve time domain and energy storage problems. This is a major problem, especially an issue in a car, where the cabinet that the speaker is mounted in is not the last word in rigidity. When a cabinet resonates excessively, a lot of the sound you hear isn't from the woofer moving, it's from the cabinet "talking" which by definition is distortion. Therefore stored energy can make bass sound boomy even if the frequency response is smooth, linear and flat in amplitude. I'd vote for and pay $3000+ for a properly executed version of this sound system.
#5
12-24-2009, 08:58 AM
My listen was much shorter in the 2009 911 S as it was a test drive, but it seemed to have the same basic character and problems as the Cayenne.
I plan to buy a 911 within the next year and will be driving one again and will report back in more detail.
I saw that one of the high end car manufacturers (BMW, I think) now has an optional premium sound system that is IMPULSE CORRECTED, which is very advanced thinking. It involves using digital processing/correction to not just remove frequency response bumps or dips, but to solve time domain and energy storage problems. This is a major problem, especially an issue in a car, where the cabinet that the speaker is mounted in is not the last word in rigidity. When a cabinet resonates excessively, a lot of the sound you hear isn't from the woofer moving, it's from the cabinet "talking" which by definition is distortion. Therefore stored energy can make bass sound boomy even if the frequency response is smooth, linear and flat in amplitude. I'd vote for and pay $3000+ for a properly executed version of this sound system.
I plan to buy a 911 within the next year and will be driving one again and will report back in more detail.
I saw that one of the high end car manufacturers (BMW, I think) now has an optional premium sound system that is IMPULSE CORRECTED, which is very advanced thinking. It involves using digital processing/correction to not just remove frequency response bumps or dips, but to solve time domain and energy storage problems. This is a major problem, especially an issue in a car, where the cabinet that the speaker is mounted in is not the last word in rigidity. When a cabinet resonates excessively, a lot of the sound you hear isn't from the woofer moving, it's from the cabinet "talking" which by definition is distortion. Therefore stored energy can make bass sound boomy even if the frequency response is smooth, linear and flat in amplitude. I'd vote for and pay $3000+ for a properly executed version of this sound system.
#6
12-24-2009, 09:14 AM
As you have probably gathered many of us purchased the car for all the reasons other than a great stereo. That being said, mine is a DD and I am all ears if there is a simple DIY that is reasonably priced to provide improved sound. Do you have a recommendation?
Hello. I have read with interest some earlier posts with opinions on the optional Bose system offered on most Porsche models. As this is my first post on this forum as a new owner of a 08 Cayenne, I don't want to come across as arrogant or uniformed in my following comments about the Bose system. So I will start out by pointing out that my background is 35 years of high end audio as well as playing guitar. My understanding of what realistic sound reproduction is all about, is, and should be expected to be very high compared to the man on the street.
I have had 3-4 other Bose systems in GM vehicles as well as several premium systems in BMW's. The Bose systems in both of my Corvette's (01 & 07) were TERRIBLE to the point of unlistenability. The Bose system in my 2004 Chevrolet pickup is surprisingly GOOD with smooth tonal balance and freedom from resonant peaks. This was a small shock to me as most of Bose's consumer products to insiders in my industry are considered to have truly laughable engineering and a reputation to match. Although the BMW systems have a different personality than the Bose in the Chevy pickup, they are decent but still have toned down versions of the same problem that effects the Cayenne Bose system.
The Cayenne system has two very obvious flaws in tonal balance, the first thing and most important thing people notice in reproduced sound. The most serious being an extremely pronounced one note thump to the sound of bass notes that can not be removed effectively by turning down the bass control as it removes all bass frequencies both above and below the offending frequency. It sounds vaguely like a kick drum accompanying all bass notes whether there is a kick drum in the music or not. There is no bass at all below this frequency and also a lack of higher bass notes above it which leads to a thin sounding midrange lacking in natural warmth. I haven't had time to measure the offending frequency range yet but found it to be between 80-150hz on the Corvette Bose system. This bump in the bass response is INTENTIONALLY put there by Bose to impress the general public, most of whom (unfortunately for the rest of us) are tinned ear. This bump could easily be largely mitigated by proper equalization, something already present in the Bose electronics, at no extra cost. The second flaw is (you guessed it) a similar peak in the higher treble frequencies but with less intensity. It causes listener fatigue giving treble a rather spitty presentation that sounds a bit like static or white inter station FM noise being added to the music. Turning the treble down does not fix the problem but does reduce the irritating effect a bit. Incidently, the Bose system I heard in a 2009 911 had the same qualities, if not in fact worse in the bass, something that may point to nasty cabinet resonances.
I saw several comments from people on the forum who dismissed criticisms from more critical listeners with the excuse that the Bose system
is "good enough", a common comment.
This mentality would be more understandable if one were buying a GM or Ford product, etc. However if Porsche saw fit to only put "good enough brakes" or "good enough paint" on their cars they would cease to be a brand discerning customers wished to buy. For a sound system that is a $1400 option, Porsche can and should do better and not by necessarily switching to a different vendor. Bose has the technology to make a very good yet reasonably priced system. Porsche just needs to have some good listeners hold their feet to the fire. Sorry for the long post.
I have had 3-4 other Bose systems in GM vehicles as well as several premium systems in BMW's. The Bose systems in both of my Corvette's (01 & 07) were TERRIBLE to the point of unlistenability. The Bose system in my 2004 Chevrolet pickup is surprisingly GOOD with smooth tonal balance and freedom from resonant peaks. This was a small shock to me as most of Bose's consumer products to insiders in my industry are considered to have truly laughable engineering and a reputation to match. Although the BMW systems have a different personality than the Bose in the Chevy pickup, they are decent but still have toned down versions of the same problem that effects the Cayenne Bose system.
The Cayenne system has two very obvious flaws in tonal balance, the first thing and most important thing people notice in reproduced sound. The most serious being an extremely pronounced one note thump to the sound of bass notes that can not be removed effectively by turning down the bass control as it removes all bass frequencies both above and below the offending frequency. It sounds vaguely like a kick drum accompanying all bass notes whether there is a kick drum in the music or not. There is no bass at all below this frequency and also a lack of higher bass notes above it which leads to a thin sounding midrange lacking in natural warmth. I haven't had time to measure the offending frequency range yet but found it to be between 80-150hz on the Corvette Bose system. This bump in the bass response is INTENTIONALLY put there by Bose to impress the general public, most of whom (unfortunately for the rest of us) are tinned ear. This bump could easily be largely mitigated by proper equalization, something already present in the Bose electronics, at no extra cost. The second flaw is (you guessed it) a similar peak in the higher treble frequencies but with less intensity. It causes listener fatigue giving treble a rather spitty presentation that sounds a bit like static or white inter station FM noise being added to the music. Turning the treble down does not fix the problem but does reduce the irritating effect a bit. Incidently, the Bose system I heard in a 2009 911 had the same qualities, if not in fact worse in the bass, something that may point to nasty cabinet resonances.
I saw several comments from people on the forum who dismissed criticisms from more critical listeners with the excuse that the Bose system
is "good enough", a common comment.
This mentality would be more understandable if one were buying a GM or Ford product, etc. However if Porsche saw fit to only put "good enough brakes" or "good enough paint" on their cars they would cease to be a brand discerning customers wished to buy. For a sound system that is a $1400 option, Porsche can and should do better and not by necessarily switching to a different vendor. Bose has the technology to make a very good yet reasonably priced system. Porsche just needs to have some good listeners hold their feet to the fire. Sorry for the long post.
#7
12-24-2009, 09:33 AM
Get a reus system
Did the upgrade to my BOSE system with Sirius satellite, better speakers, and an additional amp. Love the system. They also add speakers behind your rear view mirror and a new base unit. The sound is phenomenal. Approx $3k
Great investment if you like a killer stereo.
reusaudio.com/index.html
Great investment if you like a killer stereo.
reusaudio.com/index.html
Last edited by GT3 Chuck; 12-24-2009 at 10:52 AM. Reason: embedded link to commercial non sponsor
Trending Topics
#8
12-24-2009, 10:43 AM
My listen was much shorter in the 2009 911 S as it was a test drive, but it seemed to have the same basic character and problems as the Cayenne.
I plan to buy a 911 within the next year and will be driving one again and will report back in more detail.
I saw that one of the high end car manufacturers (BMW, I think) now has an optional premium sound system that is IMPULSE CORRECTED, which is very advanced thinking. It involves using digital processing/correction to not just remove frequency response bumps or dips, but to solve time domain and energy storage problems. This is a major problem, especially an issue in a car, where the cabinet that the speaker is mounted in is not the last word in rigidity. When a cabinet resonates excessively, a lot of the sound you hear isn't from the woofer moving, it's from the cabinet "talking" which by definition is distortion. Therefore stored energy can make bass sound boomy even if the frequency response is smooth, linear and flat in amplitude. I'd vote for and pay $3000+ for a properly executed version of this sound system.
I plan to buy a 911 within the next year and will be driving one again and will report back in more detail.
I saw that one of the high end car manufacturers (BMW, I think) now has an optional premium sound system that is IMPULSE CORRECTED, which is very advanced thinking. It involves using digital processing/correction to not just remove frequency response bumps or dips, but to solve time domain and energy storage problems. This is a major problem, especially an issue in a car, where the cabinet that the speaker is mounted in is not the last word in rigidity. When a cabinet resonates excessively, a lot of the sound you hear isn't from the woofer moving, it's from the cabinet "talking" which by definition is distortion. Therefore stored energy can make bass sound boomy even if the frequency response is smooth, linear and flat in amplitude. I'd vote for and pay $3000+ for a properly executed version of this sound system.
ffice
ffice" /><O
></O>
#9
12-24-2009, 11:33 AM
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 71
Rep Power: 17
I agree that the main reason to buy any performance car is not the stereo and that listening to the "music" the car creates is often more rewarding.
I also agree that the environment of a car, especially a moving one, is far from an ideal place to experience the very best in high fidelity sound. However this is no reason not to try for the best sound that is possible or we end up back at the it's "good enough" arguement. All one has to do is to listen OEM car stereo's from 10 years and compare them with currrent systems to see that what people thought was "good enough" back then wouldn't pass muster now even with the average listener.
Modern day technology has made it possible to generate far better sound in a car than in the past. If a premium sound system is going to be offered especially at an optional cost, it should receive the same attention to a quality as any other option on the cars list. The existing Bose system falls well short of that mark. If truly high quality sound is not important
to the buyer, they can forgo the cost of the optional upgrade.
If it is important, they should get what they pay for when the option is ordered.
I should clarify that I am not involved in the sales of car audio nor do I have any DIY or aftermarket upgrade tips for the Bose. My comments
about the sound are strickly from a trained listeners point of view.
BTW, I am interested in hearing the new BMW sound system and will do so as soon as I get a chance.
I also agree that the environment of a car, especially a moving one, is far from an ideal place to experience the very best in high fidelity sound. However this is no reason not to try for the best sound that is possible or we end up back at the it's "good enough" arguement. All one has to do is to listen OEM car stereo's from 10 years and compare them with currrent systems to see that what people thought was "good enough" back then wouldn't pass muster now even with the average listener.
Modern day technology has made it possible to generate far better sound in a car than in the past. If a premium sound system is going to be offered especially at an optional cost, it should receive the same attention to a quality as any other option on the cars list. The existing Bose system falls well short of that mark. If truly high quality sound is not important
to the buyer, they can forgo the cost of the optional upgrade.
If it is important, they should get what they pay for when the option is ordered.
I should clarify that I am not involved in the sales of car audio nor do I have any DIY or aftermarket upgrade tips for the Bose. My comments
about the sound are strickly from a trained listeners point of view.
BTW, I am interested in hearing the new BMW sound system and will do so as soon as I get a chance.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
vividracing
997
11
10-06-2015 03:43 PM
vividracing
Ferrari
0
08-24-2015 04:35 PM
