Bilstein Alternatives?
#16
FWIW, I am at -16mm (dropped and aligned by my Porsche dealer) and my Bilstein front drop links failed.
#18
Sorry for the confusion! I have the suspension button but not the Sport button. It's all clear now. Thanks.
#19
Just to clarify...the "Sports" button activates Sports Chrono functions...it interlinks many features...activating PASM, throttle response, Overboost, PSM functions, etc.
If you elect to go with a non PASM compatible damper (ie Motons, KW V3s) and don't want to have a "dead" button on your console (ie a button that doesn't do anything...I hate that) you can purchase this after deactivating PASM with PIWIS.
997 613 133 00 combined switch I476
This is the lower center console switch from the 997 Carrera. You should double check with your service department, but if I'm not mistaken, this version of the console switch has a button for the wing deployment and PSM. The PASM and Sports Chrono button are missing...hence, you won't have a dead button.
#20
No problem.
Just to clarify...the "Sports" button activates Sports Chrono functions...it interlinks many features...activating PASM, throttle response, Overboost, PSM functions, etc.
If you elect to go with a non PASM compatible damper (ie Motons, KW V3s) and don't want to have a "dead" button on your console (ie a button that doesn't do anything...I hate that) you can purchase this after deactivating PASM with PIWIS.
997 613 133 00 combined switch I476
This is the lower center console switch from the 997 Carrera. You should double check with your service department, but if I'm not mistaken, this version of the console switch has a button for the wing deployment and PSM. The PASM and Sports Chrono button are missing...hence, you won't have a dead button.
Just to clarify...the "Sports" button activates Sports Chrono functions...it interlinks many features...activating PASM, throttle response, Overboost, PSM functions, etc.
If you elect to go with a non PASM compatible damper (ie Motons, KW V3s) and don't want to have a "dead" button on your console (ie a button that doesn't do anything...I hate that) you can purchase this after deactivating PASM with PIWIS.
997 613 133 00 combined switch I476
This is the lower center console switch from the 997 Carrera. You should double check with your service department, but if I'm not mistaken, this version of the console switch has a button for the wing deployment and PSM. The PASM and Sports Chrono button are missing...hence, you won't have a dead button.
#21
They are good guys at my dealership, but not that good. The short version of my saga is: 1) my Bilstein left front drop link broke, 2) Bilstein blew me off, 3) installed adjustable front drop links, 4) the adjustable drop links were for the 996TT (wrong geometry), 5) the vendor manufactured 997TT front drop links with the proper geometry, 6) installed the "improved" 997TT drop links, 7) the "improved" drop links loosened twice, were less sturdy and bent, 8) SharkWerks made me a set of non-adjustable front drop links which have worked flawlessly.
#22
Dave,
All excellent info posted here, and I agree with bbywu (yes he's a wealth of info), *if* you want something different from Bilstein, the choices narrow down to three: KW V3, JRZ, and Moton.
But... one thing I would like to add is that the key to concentrate on is not that those 3 alternatives are "better," which they are, but that they are DIFFERENT. They are stiffer and designed for a different purpose: more aggressive and track oriented, less "daily drive." I am 100% certain this is the case for JRZ and Moton, and not sure but think it applies to KW as well. The shock absorbers in these coilovers are designed for much stiffer spring rates, so it is NOT a simple matter of switching out the springs either (again, less sure about KW).
(Larry, same thing about the Techarts, "different," not necessarily better. The Techart to my best knowledge is Bilstein Damptronic with possible different spring and dampening rates. Most likely stiffer but since they are so strict about releasing data, no one knows.)
The 2 people with KW on this forum are my forum friend cayenne_ksa and my mod advisor Gotboost?. You might want to email them for opinions. I suspect that it is a more aggressive setup than Bilstein, but other than a high spring rate in the rear of around 950 (?), versus Bilstein 570, this setup is a complete unknown to me and has very few users' reports/reviews on these Porsche forums.
As for quality? Bilstein makes the OEM shock; the ones in your car now IS made by Bilstein. They also use Porsche's chief test driver, Walter Rohrl, as their consultant, etc., so the link is deep and that's why I frequently said it is like getting a factory Sport upgrade -- a safest and most no-brainer of all mods.
Not to say that it is the case, but I agree with TT Surgeon in the sense that I would not rule out installer's error in that other particular case either. I am curious myself.
The popping drop link? My installer did say something similar to TT Surgeon's post: if you catch/slam the suspension at a correct "perfect storm" angle, the link will pop. But I think sparkhill's ones just popped, do agree that it should be better made, and did get extra ones similar to sparkhill's just in case mines do :-). Do keep in mind the vast majority of links have not popped.
(cayenne_ksa, I believe you were asking about Bilstein warranty? Lifetime. And they are KNOWN for incredible and generous service. They will give you a lifetime supply of drop links ; it's just a mild pain in the derriere to change.)
In the end, my opinion is the key to remember is that the alternative coilovers are different, not just better or worse. For track or more aggressive setup, yes consider KW, JRZ, and Moton; or change the Bilstein valving and spring rates as in the excellent works by TPC/Techarts/etc. Bilstein itself makes more aggressive shock than the Damptronic.
But... if you drive the cars frequently on bad roads, and if you daily drive the car, or if you are a more "gentle" type of driver, then stay with the safe choice.
All excellent info posted here, and I agree with bbywu (yes he's a wealth of info), *if* you want something different from Bilstein, the choices narrow down to three: KW V3, JRZ, and Moton.
But... one thing I would like to add is that the key to concentrate on is not that those 3 alternatives are "better," which they are, but that they are DIFFERENT. They are stiffer and designed for a different purpose: more aggressive and track oriented, less "daily drive." I am 100% certain this is the case for JRZ and Moton, and not sure but think it applies to KW as well. The shock absorbers in these coilovers are designed for much stiffer spring rates, so it is NOT a simple matter of switching out the springs either (again, less sure about KW).
(Larry, same thing about the Techarts, "different," not necessarily better. The Techart to my best knowledge is Bilstein Damptronic with possible different spring and dampening rates. Most likely stiffer but since they are so strict about releasing data, no one knows.)
The 2 people with KW on this forum are my forum friend cayenne_ksa and my mod advisor Gotboost?. You might want to email them for opinions. I suspect that it is a more aggressive setup than Bilstein, but other than a high spring rate in the rear of around 950 (?), versus Bilstein 570, this setup is a complete unknown to me and has very few users' reports/reviews on these Porsche forums.
As for quality? Bilstein makes the OEM shock; the ones in your car now IS made by Bilstein. They also use Porsche's chief test driver, Walter Rohrl, as their consultant, etc., so the link is deep and that's why I frequently said it is like getting a factory Sport upgrade -- a safest and most no-brainer of all mods.
Not to say that it is the case, but I agree with TT Surgeon in the sense that I would not rule out installer's error in that other particular case either. I am curious myself.
The popping drop link? My installer did say something similar to TT Surgeon's post: if you catch/slam the suspension at a correct "perfect storm" angle, the link will pop. But I think sparkhill's ones just popped, do agree that it should be better made, and did get extra ones similar to sparkhill's just in case mines do :-). Do keep in mind the vast majority of links have not popped.
(cayenne_ksa, I believe you were asking about Bilstein warranty? Lifetime. And they are KNOWN for incredible and generous service. They will give you a lifetime supply of drop links ; it's just a mild pain in the derriere to change.)
In the end, my opinion is the key to remember is that the alternative coilovers are different, not just better or worse. For track or more aggressive setup, yes consider KW, JRZ, and Moton; or change the Bilstein valving and spring rates as in the excellent works by TPC/Techarts/etc. Bilstein itself makes more aggressive shock than the Damptronic.
But... if you drive the cars frequently on bad roads, and if you daily drive the car, or if you are a more "gentle" type of driver, then stay with the safe choice.
Last edited by cannga; 01-03-2010 at 04:26 PM.
#26
If you look at aftermarket drop links that use aluminum rod ends, they stretch over time. There is no doubt in my mind that the plastic insert on the Damptronics are not up to the task for any reduction in ride height.
#29
My RSS front drop links bent after about 400 miles. Initially, I received the incorrect 996TT version which are much beefier than the 997TT version. RSS customer service was top-notch. RSS sent the 997TT version and even paid for the re-install labor. The 997TT version were installed without thread-lock and loosened twice.
So after my third trip for drop link service I decided I wanted something that did not have to worry about and ended up with the modified SharkLinks (stock drop links shortened and re-welded in the proper orientation). I did not even contact RSS about the bent drop links, but I am sure they would have made every effort to take corrective action. I do not know if the drop links bent because they are less sturdy than the 996TT versions, because they loosened, because they were and early production version, or some other combination of factors. Again, I am not bashing RSS - they have great products and service. I am just further explaining the reason I went in a different direction.
So after my third trip for drop link service I decided I wanted something that did not have to worry about and ended up with the modified SharkLinks (stock drop links shortened and re-welded in the proper orientation). I did not even contact RSS about the bent drop links, but I am sure they would have made every effort to take corrective action. I do not know if the drop links bent because they are less sturdy than the 996TT versions, because they loosened, because they were and early production version, or some other combination of factors. Again, I am not bashing RSS - they have great products and service. I am just further explaining the reason I went in a different direction.