All cars have problems but for Nissan to have turned their backs on so many that it took a class action suit on a NEW car .. that speaks volumes of their ability to strand behind their product. The CPO program is primarily succesful because most Porche owners feel pleased with the customer service Porsche has given. There are exeptions of couse as with any car but notrhing that could compare to the Nissan debacle.

Even the current Nissan Euro recall has several hundred cars facing engine replacements. This with all the disclosure forms and strict compliance guideliness.

In one of your earlier posts you said ....
"This whole thing is about as bad as the H1N1 scare.. Sadly it did effect some, but for the most part, everything has turned out fine. "

Of course it was "fine" --that's because you didn't have a $90K paper weight sitting in the garage.

In one of yoir ealier posts you said --
" I just drove a new Pan Turbo too, love it, but damn it's expensive!"

So again price IS relevant !!! Imagine the frustration of the owner who buys the Gtr trying to save money only to either face an expewnsive repair, pr a voided warranty, or the resale obstables 4 years after owning the car when used car shoppers face nervousness at the cost to upkeep the 4 year old out of warranty Nissan.

 

That doesn't refute his statement since the 2 threads you posted don't show any UK cars being affected (though that may change). He also said "how many have actually had problems." Not how many are recalled. There's a huge difference there.

From your 1st link:
"Cars affected by the recall are the first 3 months of the Left Hand Drive cars only which were all non sat nav. and NOT the RHD UK cars."
"UK, US and Japan are not affected. Thread title needs to be edited to remove UK."
"It took a long time for BMW to acknowledge it was their issue due to a defect in the manufacturing process. They had been blaming the owners of the manual M3s of missing a downshift and over-revving the engine. It was only when this happened to those of us with the SMG II equipped cars that a recall was ordered. Kudos to Nissan for stepping up and replacing the whole engine."

2nd link:
"- For those who have made engine modifications on their GT-R (turbo, outlet, injectors cobb): It is imperative to put everything behind before removal of the car."
"Comforting to see that extensive engine mods, e.g. turbos, injectors, Cobb etc have not excluded these particular engines from being replaced under the recall."

So even though these modifications can put increased stresses on the transmission and other parts for which they were not designed, it seems Nissan will not automatically void the warranty.

Oh, and BTW I'm still wondering about the powertrain warranty on the Turbo. Some initial research shows that it is 1 year and 10k miles less than Nissan's coverage on the GT-R.

 

For those late to the 10 page thread let's recap ---

1) Once again a Nissan GTR fan made the commonnly seen first post claim -- that Nissan beats the Turbo at the Ring. ( many Nissan GTR owners apparently read this Porsche forum ).

-- Nissans track numbers were cited
--Porsches claim on the Nissan's numbers (used with an actual purchased USA production car ) was mentioned (slower than the 997S and much slower than the Turbo).

My opinion was that BOTH sets have such a disparity that the truth hinges on doubt .

Yrralis1 -1
GTR fans -0

2) The GTR fans have stated that signing a detailed disclosure warranty waiver before delivery somehow benefits them . They have referred to this as "awareness" rather than some type of manufacturer compliance demand of an owner with his own car. They fail to see that their own signature can be used against them.

Yrralis1 -2
GTR fans -0

3) Price -- Both sides agree that buying the Gtr Vs the Porsche costs less . A four year equally priced Porsche (06 997S) upon resale tends to be very close to a one year old GTR (09 Gtr)-
Yrralis1 - 3
Gtr fans -0

4) Launch control -
The Cheif enginer interview was posted where Nissan claims launch control was not really meant to be used to spin the wheels but rather to get out of snow .. Ha ha .. (after all the data records and cars broke . the backpeddle explaination).

Yrralis1 -4
Gtr fans -0

5) Other races were dicussed . For instance the 1 mile race .
The GTR fans seem to avoid that one .
Yrralis1 - 5
Gtr fans -0

6) Maintenance /recalls -
Current GTR recalls in Europe can be found reacing the Nissan forums . Those threds were posted . No one has refuted this.
Yrralis1 -6
Gtr Fans -0

 

I did a recap on page 11. It was a lot shorter and didn't award points.

 

Yep, agreed, that's why I said I'm going through the motions/emotions openly as I try to figure it all out. However, as of now, my concerns are based on a year or so from now with the GT-R not what's going on at the moment. There is some "H1N1" hype going on for sure currently. Some things are overblown BUT I'm just not sure we still won't end up as currently hyped in the long run. If so, the question is, can continue the "white glove" approach if the sales on these cars subside, kinda like they're doing right now? If they continue to loose monies they'll pull out. What happens then??? Face it, the GT-R is a pain in the dealership's butts too, a whole other set of criteria for just one car. If not pushed by the brass above, they will gladly sink back down to their norm. No doubt, I don't want a boat anchor or warranty issues but no doubt I get sick of making Porsche rich at the same time. Like I said, at least they're finally NOW giving us the options and performance they could have, and should have, given us years ago for the monies they charge, thank you competition. Nissan saw this and took heed.

At this point the only way I feel I can approach the GT-R is to consider it possibly becoming an expendable toy. I do not do this with Porsches, never have, never will. The only problem is $80K plus is not a toy in my world and used is out of the question for sure with all the aforementioned at least for me.

Yes its about price and yes it about pride in what you purchase/own. That's what makes us all successful enough to buy these cars. Passion is a good thing. If anything I'll walk out of this personal controversy a bit more appreciative which isn't a bad thing either. Porsche needed this to happen to them and Nissan has done a pretty adequate job of handing it to them but probably only for moment. I'm sure we'll revisit this in 18-months or so, be interesting to see where things are.

 

My summary is the car doesn't suck, in fact it's pretty great, made me question Porsche, but will it be in 2-years? Service, reliability, support? No doubt Porsche will still be around and probably stronger than ever now that the competition has made them spend some of that money they've made on us.

We really won't know anything about the GT-R for another 18-months. There's no question about Porsche... Nissan better up the ante, there's no turning back for them either.

 

I think if only they brought out a manual option for the GT-R it would have made a lot of people happy, and would be up there in popularity like the R34. Just having a strong manual transmission could go some way to alleviating people's concerns, and would probably also make it a bit more fun.

 

GTR is really fast but so ugly it would make a freight train take a dirt road!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Has anyone got the new turbo vs GTR vs R8 article to scan from March CAR mag?

edit: Actually it's EVO mag.

 

To be expected but agree no sense you reading anything you cant deal with. And, if you read the article on GTR vs 2010 Gt3 at Wakefield park raceway done by independant race drivers putting both through their paces will definately bring major outrage from the Gtr guys. I actually cant wait for next months issue to see all the letters of justifaction.
Anyway 18k was just for the brakes but understand prices are way different over here in Aus. New the Gtr is @170k so I guess Nissan feels 18k for brakes is relative given the cars new price . This guy put his own personal details to the letter so with litigation the way it is I can only imagine if Nissan got hold of it and found he was making it up or embellishing they would have him for breakfast so the safe money is on him telling the truth . Anyway, as i've already said there is enough feed back out there, but this case more recent and can be validated if you so choose. The mag is also Aussies most prominent and well respected performance car mag too so its gonna get read by someone at Nissan . His main beef was regarding the cars durability and the way he was treated and how much he had to pay for wearing parts like brakes. He said he wont be buying another one as its not durable or viable to own. I'm not saying Porshes never have problems but I cant say i've ever had to replace brake rotors on any of my Porshes least of all at 20,000km even after combining hard city and track day use. eg My last 997C2s had its front pads replaced at 36000kms and it did some hard work . Porsches are generally very hardy little blighters and there would be few to disagree with that fact.

 

No, you claimed the 997 S is as fast as the GT-R. That's pretty absurd based on all available information. Take a look:
http://www.fastestlaps.com/compariso...744cdd4d5.html

For the same-day Silverstone result, look at what this GT-R (supplied by Nissan for their training academy and which was slower than a customer GT-R they also tested) did to the 997S:
http://www.dpccars.com/car-videos-08...on-Vantage.htm

Drivers Republic drove the 997 GT2 on that very same track within a week of that test and found it to be a fairly insignificant 0.2s faster than the GT-R. A similar result to what Evo found testing the GT2 against the GT-R on the same day around their track. Are you going to claim that a 997S is as fast as a GT2??
You obviously continue to put absolute faith in Porsche's numbers, despite the wealth of data staring at you right in the face. Panamera Turbo will run with a GT-R and GT2, will it? According to Porsche, that car is just about as fast as the GT-R.
You aren't using Porsche's findings as an eye opener toward finding the truth. You have deliberately ignored every single piece of evidence on the planet indicating that the 997S is noticeably slower than the GT-R, and you have made Porsche's singular, odd result "the truth." There is enough empirical evidence to those with a truly open mind that the GT-R is convincingly faster than the 997S. There should be absolutely zero doubt about that.

3) Price -- Both sides agree that buying the Gtr Vs the Porsche costs less . A four year equally priced Porsche (06 997S) upon resale tends to be very close to a one year old GTR (09 Gtr)-
Yrralis1 - 3
Gre fans -0
Not with
1) a similar number of miles, or
2) a similar starting selling price accounting for options.
Yeah, maybe it's close to a one year old GT-R. But what if it started out with $10k+ in options...? I can pretty much guarantee you that the 997S which lapped in 7:50 wasn't a base model car. Throw in the price of the PDK transmission and PASM and you're already over $92k.

Then again, shouldn't we be comparing the standard 997 to the GT-R? They are within a couple of hundred dollars of each other, whereas the 2009 997 S started about $10k more than the GT-R.
http://autos.msn.com/research/compar...9129&v=t109153
(Notice KBB resale advice.)

You also claimed Nissan didn't have the waiver before 2010 and that Nissan is alone among other makers in denying coverage for a car that is tracked. Wrong on both counts. Perhaps a revisit of this thread is in order.
I also find it pretty damn funny that the only document you ever signed from your Porsche dealer before taking delivery was a buyer's order.

 

Sorry for breaking in on your rally regarding used market interest and resale values on Gtr vs Porsche....and, i know im talking Aus here, not USA, but some years back when we were in the business of complying grey import 34 and 33 series gtr cars (amongst other brands)from Japan, selling them through our dealership arm these GTr cars proved to be extremely hard to shift full stop. Those sales we did manage to get out the door were always very price driven (well under what the owners anticipated). The 34's we handled were thankfully all on consignment due to the high outlay as stock ,which we werent prepared to foot or tie up. These Gtr34 cars were a year or less old and real nice cars. We even had a brand new one and god did one that stick around (more than 12 months) and the owner took an awfull bath on that. Granted all eventually sold, but way under cost and expectations. As a dealer the problem we found was those that showed interest (that had the money) mostly went back to the German options due to the prestige factor and established resale values. There were always plenty of young dreamers but none of those could stump up the money or get insurance. I cant see much changing with the GtR 35 just because its a newer model. Used Porsches on the other hand are totally different story.

 

I don't feel that even the base 997 ought to be compared to the Gtr. I would rather have the 997 --but it wasn't me , nor even Porsche for that matter who began making this far fetched comparison.

It was Nissan and the Edmunds .

1) You never saw Porsche launch a 997turbo claiming to beat the Nissan --it was the other way around.
2) Rarely does a Porsche owner visit a Nissan forum to incite a thread such as by the first post on this one with the follow up of at least 5 owners.

I can't speak for all Porsche owners .. but I don't feel there is ANY comparison .

Now one can't expect that if Nissan and edmunds made the claim that they did --that Porsche wouldn't want to test it. They did .. and thus the disparity.

It was introduced in model year 2010.

I own two Porsches bought from two different dealerships new. On one I signed only the buyers order along with the registration (non Porsche related), and odometer on my trade in.

The second I signed the same but they did sign a PDI verification siply stating that the car went through the PDi .

Nothing else from either.
I did not have to pledge my signature to a set of stringent requirements. In fact BOTH of my cars are modified . Neither have broken down. Any time I ever needed any assistance in the 9 Porsches I have owned .. I have never felt ignored or cast aside. In short --Porsche rocks!!!!!

Nope -- Porsche claimed 7.54 on a tested USA production GtR. That is 4 seconds slower than a 997S but I claimed it reaveals DOUBT.

--
What will you say if the 997S can beat it?
What will you say when Nissan themselves inproves the car over time .. and no one wants the used one you currently have due to the controvery that Nissan created by making these ridiculous claims ?
What will do say when you realize that in trying to save money .. you actually lost money?
What will you say when the 4 year old Porsche still looks clean and nice and the Tuners have brought their game up to an even more impressive level?
Do you ever think that the wannabe street racers who idolize the Gtr might not grow up in the 4 years it takes for yoir car to go off warranty and then reach the maturity to have seen beyond their youthful indoctrination?

If the Porsche was really slow --don't you think Porche owners would say so? In fact many will say that one porsche may not be as fast as another but that the different models all offer something special and unique to the driver . If they don't feel that way ... they sell the car and move on .. and its ok .

Owning a Porsche means one can love it dearly as many do --- but it is not a requirement .

 

There have been a few imported 34's and 33's in this country as well, and even though rare, few wanted to buy them. Lack of dealer support may have been a huge factor, as no Nissan dealer here is under any obligation to provide warranty parts and service to a grey market car. It's a lot different now with the official import of the R35, and I think KBB's suggested resale reflects this. In short, apples vs oranges.

 

How many engines do they have to replace --350 ?
You agree with the owner who thanks Nissan as he faces the time loss and incovenience of shipping his Gtr for an engine replacement? Not to mention the diminished value when he goes somday to sell the car and a new buyer asks "so you got a new engine --why?" . Not to mention that the Gtr is priced higher in Europe.

Gee --how wonderful!!!
Maybe we ought to all hope to buy cars which face a recall and get a free engine so we can thank the manufacturer for NOT getting it right the first time?