New 911 Turbo S or Ferrari 458 Italia?
I would not pick the 458 . Yes it is very pretty but that's as far it it goes.
1) The F1 can not compete with PDK efficiency
2) Porsche service is leaps above Ferrari in terms of how well the manufacturer writes repair instuctions for technicians . The Ferrari techs do not have the same ease .
3) Repair costs are not only ecessive but time concuming . In short if you don't mind hearing that the part is "on a boat from Italy" then Ferrari is for you.
4) Mileage depreciates a Ferrari like a falling rock .
5) The negative attention of parking a Ferrari only to come back to fingerprints all over the windows (at best) makes the car impractical .
6) Most Ferrrai's handle well but drive awfully (F1 sucks) . They sound great , and lo0k great but are terribly engineered .
Local dealership sells both and would love to sell me either car but every time I even mentioned a Ferrari when they considered my driving needs and customer service likes .. gave the advice to stick with Porsche. In fact there are many owners who jump to Ferrari only to come back to Porsche .
If the sole purpose if buying the car is to flash ones assets .. then by all means the Ferrari wins but if the overall experience is to have a great car that delivers terrific driving, at a reasonble cost, where the guys who fix it can get it accomplished in a timely matter .. then my feeling is you will miss Porsche after the novelty , and the look at me bling erodes and what you have left is a pretty car that has quirks or when you try to sell it and no one wants it --because the guys who can afford one woild rather have a new car rather than bargain shop the car you realized was not all that the fantasy illusion of Ferrrai measured up to.
1) The F1 can not compete with PDK efficiency
2) Porsche service is leaps above Ferrari in terms of how well the manufacturer writes repair instuctions for technicians . The Ferrari techs do not have the same ease .
3) Repair costs are not only ecessive but time concuming . In short if you don't mind hearing that the part is "on a boat from Italy" then Ferrari is for you.
4) Mileage depreciates a Ferrari like a falling rock .
5) The negative attention of parking a Ferrari only to come back to fingerprints all over the windows (at best) makes the car impractical .
6) Most Ferrrai's handle well but drive awfully (F1 sucks) . They sound great , and lo0k great but are terribly engineered .
Local dealership sells both and would love to sell me either car but every time I even mentioned a Ferrari when they considered my driving needs and customer service likes .. gave the advice to stick with Porsche. In fact there are many owners who jump to Ferrari only to come back to Porsche .
If the sole purpose if buying the car is to flash ones assets .. then by all means the Ferrari wins but if the overall experience is to have a great car that delivers terrific driving, at a reasonble cost, where the guys who fix it can get it accomplished in a timely matter .. then my feeling is you will miss Porsche after the novelty , and the look at me bling erodes and what you have left is a pretty car that has quirks or when you try to sell it and no one wants it --because the guys who can afford one woild rather have a new car rather than bargain shop the car you realized was not all that the fantasy illusion of Ferrrai measured up to.
It's a Ferrari
+1
modern day Ferrari's are meant to be as reliable as any other car on the road. F430's require nothing more than annual service and fluid change.
does it cost more to service than other cars? sure. And a porsche costs more to service than a Ford. what's the issue? If you can afford the Ferrari i'm assuming you can afford to service it. if you can't then that's your problem. They also come with a warranty.
They depreciate just like any other car - probably less than others. I know several people who own one and they have no issues with service, the dealers knowing how to fix them, or waiting for parts.
does it cost more to service than other cars? sure. And a porsche costs more to service than a Ford. what's the issue? If you can afford the Ferrari i'm assuming you can afford to service it. if you can't then that's your problem. They also come with a warranty.
They depreciate just like any other car - probably less than others. I know several people who own one and they have no issues with service, the dealers knowing how to fix them, or waiting for parts.
+2
[salesperson stated "those are all in the past". /QUOTE]
Did you expect him to say otherwise ? Do know how much he makes selling just one unit ? How many do you think he sells a year?
Did you expect him to say otherwise ? Do know how much he makes selling just one unit ? How many do you think he sells a year?
It's a Ferrari, they sell themselves..........probably the easiest job in the world is A: weatherman in Southern California B: Ferrari salesman
oh.................it's a Ferrari
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 229
From: Australia
Rep Power: 30
I like this plan - although the Murci replacement should be here before I can get a 458. If my experience with a couple of Gallardos is anything to go by, it might be a good idea to skip the first year of the new Lambo.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,108
From: South Florida
Rep Power: 529
I know several people who own one and they have no issues with service, the dealers knowing how to fix them, or waiting for parts.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
According to these .. there were 1950 (2005 -2007) F430 recalls --(scroll down -- because other models are also listed)
http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_re...ari/index.html
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->http://www.automotix.net/autorepair/recalls/ferrari/
If individual owners are what matters here's a few --http://www.fixya.com/tags/360_ferrari
It doesn't take too much searching to see that a very pretty and expensive car does not always measure up to the fantasy illusion .
They depreciate just like any other car - probably less than others
At least the owner got to enjoy the car --but what of the many 2010 Ferrari cars with UNDER 500 miles listed on Auto trader . How much fun do you think those owners had ?
Last edited by yrralis1; Feb 28, 2010 at 02:37 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,108
From: South Florida
Rep Power: 529
It's a Ferrari
That to me is a Ferrari . The hope is to actually buy a car and what you end up is a small taste of something which looks very beautiful , costs a lot of money , but leaves you hungry.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 202
From: Helsinki, Finland
Rep Power: 29
totally different story from Ferrari dealer (AZ) one month ago. i brought up past reliability issues; salesperson stated "those are all in the past". F430 to present including 458 can be driven DD no problem" went on saying "service simplified involves minor services the first 4yrs @ about $1k with a major service done the 5th year for about $5k then starts all over again". F1 engineering has filtered into new cars and that the 458 is easily serviced. told him that i had a tt and have had no problems with car or service; his reply "any F430 or 458 will do the same, plus tt no match to 'aura or sound ' of ferrari. confused?
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 202
From: Helsinki, Finland
Rep Power: 29
Not true. My Range Rover Sport is at least twice more expensive to service than my 997tt...
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,524
From: Long Island
Rep Power: 94
Individual owners ? How about some actual numbers ?
According to these .. there were 1950 (2005 -2007) F430 recalls --(scroll down -- because other models are also listed)
http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_re...ari/index.html
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->http://www.automotix.net/autorepair/recalls/ferrari/
If individual owners are what matters here's a few --http://www.fixya.com/tags/360_ferrari
It doesn't take too much searching to see that a very pretty and expensive car does not always measure up to the fantasy illusion .
I once saw a 17K mile F360 sitting on an independent lot . They could not sell the car for over a year . It was expressed how frustrating it was to sell a high mileage Ferrari that was simply driven rather than a garage queen. Not that 17K miles is that much but in the Ferrari market it is because (paraphrasing) " A guy who can buy a Ferrari can buy a new one and at 17K miles it's still too high for an average high end car shopper " . So it sat unsold for a long time.
At least the owner got to enjoy the car --but what of the many 2010 Ferrari cars with UNDER 500 miles listed on Auto trader . How much fun do you think those owners had ?
According to these .. there were 1950 (2005 -2007) F430 recalls --(scroll down -- because other models are also listed)
http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_re...ari/index.html
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->http://www.automotix.net/autorepair/recalls/ferrari/
If individual owners are what matters here's a few --http://www.fixya.com/tags/360_ferrari
It doesn't take too much searching to see that a very pretty and expensive car does not always measure up to the fantasy illusion .
I once saw a 17K mile F360 sitting on an independent lot . They could not sell the car for over a year . It was expressed how frustrating it was to sell a high mileage Ferrari that was simply driven rather than a garage queen. Not that 17K miles is that much but in the Ferrari market it is because (paraphrasing) " A guy who can buy a Ferrari can buy a new one and at 17K miles it's still too high for an average high end car shopper " . So it sat unsold for a long time.
At least the owner got to enjoy the car --but what of the many 2010 Ferrari cars with UNDER 500 miles listed on Auto trader . How much fun do you think those owners had ?
Porsche also had some trouble with RMS; ever read the M5 board when the E60 M5 came out with SMG II. Every day there were issues.
I also don't believe in buying my car for the next guy. If i have to worry about the depreciation hit if i drive it to much, then maybe i couldn't afford it?
Also, many Ferrari owners own multiple cars and just don't have the oppty. to drive them every day.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 294
From: Atherton, CA
Rep Power: 30
Then just trade the C2S for the Turbo S for now and wait to decide on the hypercar of your choice when they are all available. You still have an LP640 in the meantime lol... doesn't seem like too much of a hardship...
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 896
From: Denver, CO
Rep Power: 71
If you are among one of the first to get the 458 at sticker then buy it put 5k miles on it and resell it for $50k more than you probably bought it for.
First year or two there will be incredible demand for these cars. There always has been in the past...
First year or two there will be incredible demand for these cars. There always has been in the past...
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,215
From: Socal
Rep Power: 82
Have you ever gone to a very expensive restuarant where they serve a tiny portion of delicious food that looks like art? After you get the check and pay the huge price you're still hungry. So what you originally intended to do (which was eat dinner) never really got fulfilled.
That to me is a Ferrari . The hope is to actually buy a car and what you end up is a small taste of something which looks very beautiful , costs a lot of money , but leaves you hungry.
That to me is a Ferrari . The hope is to actually buy a car and what you end up is a small taste of something which looks very beautiful , costs a lot of money , but leaves you hungry.
F430 is pretty much bullet proof except for the cat issues in early models. Porsche turbos had RMS , second gear pop out , IMS etc...list goes on.
A Porsche Turbo , lets be honest is the most boring supercar! Its one of the best cars when you look at it objectively , but just doesn't compare to the passion and excitement offered by a Italian mid engine car esp Ferrari.
Yeah Porsche turbo is very fast and can drive in snow.....Ferrari looks good ,sounds good, handles good, Fast enough for anyone, F458 has a 9k rev and one of the most advanced gearboxes in the world. Its just in a different level!
I personally will take a F360 CS ,F430 or a Scud anyday over any 911 turbo. If you want a practical car there are many cars out there...if you want a fun car that offers mind blowing experience every single drive ...Ferrari/Lambo is the way to go. I personally like RWD cars so for me Lambo is out , except Balboni, SL.
Don't even talk about depreciation in this market...all cars are taking a hit now. A 2007 Porsche turbo sold for 69K , A F430 still sells for 130k. Both cars lost 70k....Its not like P Turbo is depreciation proof. Ferrari will always remain exclusive and highly desirable, there is a reason for it.
Last edited by vbmw335; Feb 28, 2010 at 11:21 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 886
From: Florida
Rep Power: 63
I like Ferraris, and the 458 is a handsome car but I don't find it gorgeous. Call me crazy, but I think my little ole Cayman has better lines. As I said, I have always liked Ferraris but my love of Porsche began long ago, I think for good reason. I saw the three 907's cross the line three abreast in 1968 at the Daytona speedway, which was the first car race I ever went to, at an impressionable age of 14. I saw Pedro Rodriguez out gun Ferrari at Daytona in 1970 and '71 in his 917. Yes, Penske's 512 was fast, but it did not win in '71 and did not stay in the race long enough to see if it could win on it's own merit. I also saw Pedro out gun Ferrari at Watkins glen in 1970. I saw Donahue conquer the world's fastest sports cars in 1973 at Road Atlanta. And then there is the small fact of the 956/962 being the winningest prototype car of all time, and those Tag-McLarens didn't do too bad in F1 in the mid eighties. Porsche hasn't done too bad in ALMS in P2 and GT2 more recently. Ferrari does Formula One pretty well but Porsche just seems to do it all with a vengence. Porsche's history and tradition just amazes me, and the current Turbo S performs pretty well. The 998 may be even better. I like Ferraris, but my money would go to Porsche, for many reasons, some listed above. Call me silly and sentimental, I guess.
Last edited by USCCayman; Feb 28, 2010 at 11:54 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,215
From: Socal
Rep Power: 82
I like Ferraris, and the 458 is a handsome car but I don't find it gorgeous. Call me crazy, but I think my little ole Cayman has better lines. As I said, I have always liked Ferraris but my love of Porsche began long ago, I think for good reason. I saw the three 907's cross the line three abreast in 1968 at the Daytona speedway, which was the first car race I ever went to, at an impressionable age of 14. I saw Pedro Rodriguez out gun Ferrari at Daytona in 1970 and '71 in his 917. Yes, Penske's 512 was fast, but it did not win in '71 and did not stay in the race long enough to see if it could win on it's own merit. I also saw Pedro out gun Ferrari at Watkins glen in 1970. I saw Donahue conquer the world's fastest sports cars in 1973 at Road Atlanta. And then there is the small fact of the 956/962 being the winningest prototype car of all time, and those Tag-McLarens didn't do too bad in F1 in the mid eighties. Porsche hasn't done too bad in ALMS in P2 and GT2 more recently. Ferrari does Formula One pretty well but Porsche just seems to do it all with a vengence. Porsche's history and tradition just amazes me, and the current Turbo S performs pretty well. The 998 may be even better. I like Ferraris, but my money would go to Porsche, for many reasons, some listed above. Call me silly and sentimental, I guess.
Have you ever gone to a very expensive restuarant where they serve a tiny portion of delicious food that looks like art? After you get the check and pay the huge price you're still hungry. So what you originally intended to do (which was eat dinner) never really got fulfilled.
That to me is a Ferrari . The hope is to actually buy a car and what you end up is a small taste of something which looks very beautiful , costs a lot of money , but leaves you hungry.
That to me is a Ferrari . The hope is to actually buy a car and what you end up is a small taste of something which looks very beautiful , costs a lot of money , but leaves you hungry.
Can't say that I have. Not sure what restaurants you frequent and quite frankly I don't care. Your analogy was inane and was void of all cogent logic and reasoning in my opinion. You don't like Ferrari's, I do (as does 95% of the members in here).......we agree to disagree, let's just leave it at that!
Last edited by UMADBRO; Feb 28, 2010 at 03:22 PM.