Fvd exhausts are fine, no weird noises at all.

 

Chris, you never had that problem in your car? Was the noise then isolated to a few particular cars (that's what I always wonder about)?

Do you know if FVD change the exhaust design since that generation (I don't follow their exhaust's changes)?

 

My car no, but I found the quad tips created a high pitched tone on decell that I didn't like. I imagine that's what folks meant. But even that they took out of the system now.
No issue w the stock tips.
C

 

You don't have to listen to 5-10 systems; but definitely the 1 you are interested in exchanging to, and maybe a couple more. Even for brands you are not intersted in buying, if someone offers a demo, go ahead as you never know. Exhaust audition doesn't take long, it's fun, you get to meet another Porsche nut, and more is better because no question it *will* give you a better idea of what makes you happy, what not. Some of the ones that might be of interest to you as they span a range of sound: Cargraphic, EP, FVD, Tubi.

Although the character of sound is important (some rumble down low, some don't, some have more staccato sound than others, etc.), loudness IMHO remains the most important and very personal parameter. Too loud then you have a headache, not loud enough and you feel terrible because it feels like some sound is dying to get out of the car and your inner aggression would never be dealt with adequately . A good loud exhaust scream is a bucket list item :-).

Partly because I really like a loud satisfying scream from my exhaust at WOT, and especially if this is a weekend car and your neighbors are not a concern, I would vote to always err on the louder side. Finally, check the first page of this thread of course before your audition if you haven't done so :-).

 

Excerpts from a prior quote.

I read this a while back and forgot to comment. How do you escape the drone problem? Are you suggesting you cruise at 70 in 5th? Because 70 in 6th is right at something less than 2500 RPM, if I recall correctly. Unless you cruise at 90 in 6th, which is quite a challenge these days for a number of reasons! A manual definitely avoids the drone issue around town, because I never shift below 4k, but on the highway in 6th the car is always below 3000 RPM. I apologize, what were you suggesting?

 

No problem. My car has literally never seen 6th gear . I've only tested it once or twice to make sure 6th gear is there and working :-).

Yes basically I cruise in 4th or 5th gear and it's worked out perfectly for my daily drive to work in LA that has a mixture of some "normal" street, some mountain road, and some freeway. It's second nature to the point that I never "think" about what gear to drive to avoid resonance and I don't hear any resonance.

With any reputable and well known exhaust, you should not hear any terrible noise driving at 3000 or above. If you do, there is some problem with the car, the exhaust, the install, etc.
For my Cargraphic, driving this way, at constant throttle freeway speed, it's quiet. On amountain road driving with aggression it sounds closest in character and loudness to stock GT3, inside of car.

 

Thanks. Well, that explains it. Worth noting that cruising on the highway in 6th will put you right in the "drone zone"!

 

Sure, and there is a *second* reason not to use 6th gear in our car: the turbo torque/power kicks in at 3000. Cruising at 3000 reduces turbo lag and makes car more natural in its behavior.

 

Very good point!

You can't, that's why if the car is intended as a DD or, to be used regularly in all types of driving situations you need a system that doesn't drone or annoy. And, the level of drone i'm refering to is within what an OEM manufacturer would consider acceptable not any other subjective nonsense ive been listening to on these forums at times.

Can, i've heard you say these cars have to be driven at above 3000 rpms all the time to be driving the car properly and no offence to you as a person but that really is total nonsense for the majority because it's simply impractical to do so all of the time.

This car has a ton of torque even at rpms below 3000 and can be (and is) trundled around between 1800 and 3000 rpm quite regularly and that's how this car inevitable gets driven in most general driving situations by the majority of owners. This is where the problem lays for most AM systems on the market today.

I would agree that at WOT it is at @3000rpms the engine is at that sweet spot where lag disappears if shifting between higher gears (4th 5th and 6th) and maintaining a consistent WOT driving approach. But how often does everyone drive like that outside of a racetrack environment? I think you all know the answer to that one. Not very. In 1st 2nd and 3rd the car is often used at around 1800 to 3000 on way up through the gears when pulling away from a set of lights where you need to remain at a given speed limit. Surely you arent serious that the car has to be left in 2nd (or 3rd) above 3000 rpms to maintain a low speed in a trafficable environment just so you don't get exposed to annoying resonance? Most drivers usually want to shift up into a taller gear and sit at low rpms in traffic type situations enjoying economy and be in as much of a relaxed state as possible during those times,.... not have the engine revving above 3000rpms sitting stuck in 2nd or 3rd!

I can drive my car in 6th, on streets and/or freeway, at any rpm in any gear, and not get annoying drone and that's what makes the EP system so brilliant for me as a regular user. My car is a DD for me, and anyone on the planet who wants to be able to drive their car in any gear or any rev range at any time they want and not get a headache from it will want a system that allows their car to be driven in the "drone zone". These other AM systems inc your CG where the driver is having to hide above 3000 rpm to avoid the drone zone (drone that could be considered annoying by an OEM vehicle manufacturer...forget the subjectiveness story) are a non runner in the long term and these systems are basically all going to end up being millstones around any drivers neck who wants to use his car as it was designed by the manufacturer (as 99.99999% of the population drives). The usual outcome being the car winds up not being driven regularly and a secondary vehicle that is more pleasant and tolerable to be in, winds up doing most of the work....the TT left at home only for short bursts or WOT track days etc. Although that said you sill run the risk of a headache at the track for sure as the helmet won't insulate your ears adequately.

This 997tt car was designed by Porsche to be an everyday supercar, (yes?) and to be driven between 1800 and 2800 (the dreaded drone zone as its so referred to) and, to have any situation where you can't drive the car in that zone in fear of getting a headache or nuisance is absolutely crazy (to me anyway). Maybe others are prepared to live with that compromise but definitely count me out. Users can wobble on infinitum about sound and subjectiveness and so forth because at one point all that becomes succeeded by usability and practicality factors. The TT will never sound like a GT3. It can still sound very good with the right system and also enjoy power benefits as well but without having the use between 1800 and 2800 the car becomes a white elephant at one point....or an indulgent show pony/garage queen.

Just saying, the 3k rpm story doesn't stack up in the real world Can. And yes, Ryem 3 raised a very good point indeed!

 

Paul,

"Total nonsense" and your welcoming me to the "real world" are concepts that are quite condescending. I think you might soon be suspended by 6speed for the second time, for being a repeat trouble maker. I am surprised the mods haven't talked to you yet. Please calm down and stop looking for a fight with multiple people on this forum.

And would you please not post in any of my threads again - it's a free forum but if you have self respect please honor my request? Create your own thread, express your knowledge, instead of going around disagreeing with people who don't share your preference or Heaven forbids, the exhaust. (My God it is just an exhaust, we love it but it's not something to drop nuclear bombs over and not something to have sex with ok?)
IMHO you are frighteningly one dimensional (In this world with much fanaticism, your Europipe fanaticism is scary to me Paul; you are like a mad dog biting at everyone in sight who has the audacity to like something else.) and am not going to respond because it is just like talking to some creature without ears. Waste of time and I really don't have time for you.

There are multiple holes in your various arguments but you have been and will continue be the second person that I ignore on this forum (the other one like you is also on the suspension list for being mouthy I believe, but permanently). I could well defend any of my opinions, but am not going to waste time with someone with a history of suspension on this forum - again please, please do not post in my threads and ruin my day.

 

Im not sure what it is that you believe i have said here that warrants banning least of all having my posts censored or removed. Ive always believed the forums to be as means of free speech and the providing of quality information so long as one refrained from personal insults or attacks. I also see the forums as a means to offer ones opinions or advice gained either from either formal traing or user experience to help others, and i think i have always edeavored to call it honestly even if it hasn't gone down well at times to those on a receiving end. Iv'e have however sadly come across personal insults and derogogatory remarks from certain users and members that don't agree with me only to have them delete/edit their insults after i have responded so they can then cleverly run behind my back to the mods and have me put in trouble or banned. I don't operate like that. if i've got something to say i say it....and i stand behind it.

I've always had respect for you Can and i'm sorry if you feel i have not shown you respect here. I can recall times when we enjoyed banter. In so far as you inferring i am only pushing the EP product beacuse i have it is incorrect. I have never gone out of my way dedicating personal threads to the products i have on my car as you have. Nor have i said anything with the thought i would be able to censor any user of another system or component to disable them from offering an opinion contrary to whatever i was posting. I welcome debate on anything i may say.

You on the othr hand have dedicated entire threads to the products you have on your car and i see you have come under fire from other members that dont subscribe to your opinion at times (re the bilstein suspension thread in particular).

I will not post on your thread from this point on out of respect for you and your request however, that will only remain whilst the information given is true and correct. I believe all members and outside persons that use these forums for reference and/or advice are entitled to receive quality information. I would be surprised if the owners of these forums would wish to see quality information and user experiences censored or suppressed for the sake of appeasing any particular individual however i will leave that up to them to decide what type of info that wish to appear on their forums.

I do however note during your multiple edits of your last post that you have openly insulted me on numerous occassions and i have copy pasted all of those onto my clipbouard as evidence if required. I understand you are blowing off steam (for whatever reason i really dont know) but please try to refrain from making further dergogatory remarks about myself in a bid to vilify me to other members and users here. That is wrong and i'm sure the mods are able to identify that without my need to call it out.

Anyway good day to you and in closing I would like to state i wish to cause you no harm or personal offence Can. Im sorry that you feel the way you do.

 

Thank you. See what I meant? You still have to have some parting shots in saying sorry :-). And "collecting evidence " against me at the same time as you were expressing remorse - Paul, wake up, what *is* the matter with you man, win every argument at all costs huh?
Read my post above, all the answers to your continued questions are in there, particularly the part why I can well defend my opinions but don't just respond to anyone. And I don't have a history of instigating problems, not recently anyway :-), so mods let me get away with mild screaming.

I once was like you Paul, hungry & crazy, to a lesser degree I am sure :-), "everything in my car is best." Nowadays, I have achieved Nirvana and mostly express **what I like** and don't go around hunting down people to disagree with. That's the big difference between us and why mods would never suspend me. I could see through you like Buddha, honest. Give up your Europipe craziness and your "everything I am using is the best" attitude because it will get you in trouble again.

Kidding aside, good luck and please leave me alone and refrain from posting on things you have no experience with. Thank you!

 

Can,
Is this video a good representation of a Cargraphic exhaust note. On a side note, it almost sounds like a lion growling in a cage before being let out. Deep rumble. This is a 997 so might could very be completely different sounding than 996tts. i dunno know. confused.


I'm on the fence about this next move. I know everyone is saying hear it first in person...but that is challenging.

I am also considering a europipe. I have a TTS and Stef there says the ST2 loud is not a good choice because of the larger turbos...to much drone. and better choice would be st1 or then st2 quiet.

 

rye, If you want to avoid drone, it is necessary to choose an exhaust system with that in mind and it will never be a problem. For instance, we manufacture a "quiet" version of our 997TT X-Flow exhaust that has absolutely no drone, even cruising in 6th gear on the highway, yet has a fantastic wail at WOT - I feel this type of system offers "the best of both worlds" and is the most suitable for the majority of TT owners. We also have a "loud" version of the same system that has an very assertive, aggressive note and has some drone in the 2500 RPM range. The typical customer that purchases our "loud" version is made aware of the slight drone and is willing to accept it in exchange for the aggressive sound they desire. Both systems sound fantastic and satisfy their target market very well. We also offer a pure 3" X-Pipe (no mufflers) for a real race sound - which again has some drone in the low RPM range, but it is minimal and once beyond 2800 RPM's the sound is incredible and some want that, too. The point I am trying to get across is that if you do not want drone, you must pick a system that can provide that and very few brands of exhaust will accomodate that requirement. On the other hand, if you want a loud, agressive system, plan on there being some drone inherent in the louder volume.

Also, in our case, "quiet" does not mean boring. As an example, our 997TT "quiet" system will not only be drone free, but the sound quality is also exceptional and there is beautiful GT3 type wail at WOT. There are a lot of exhaust options for the 997TT and there is no reason to have drone with an aftermarket exhaust, if you make the proper choice.

 

Can please excuse my posting on your thread (again) but as as you have asked me a question (again) i always feel obliged to answer out of manners.

Firstly the evidence of your repeated insults and derogatory remarks have been retained due to past lessons learned where i have been unfairly and cleverly set up by certain cowardly members (not you) who have manipulated the system here to set me up as a trouble maker and perpetrator when in fact i was the victim justifiably responding to viscous insults from my calling out their either flawed and/or incorrect information. I am fully aware pets exist on this forum and it is sad to report the pets can also be very good at playing a clever game of manipulation of the rules to their advantage. After being banned and labelled a troublemaker (that's what you refer me as) I'm a little tired of looking the bad guy so please excuse me but i'm just defending myself now Can. In times gone by I have most certainly been subjected to some very nasty insults only to then respond accordingly. Incidentally the types of insults directed at me are in fact no different to what has happened here today by yourself. The only difference being i have not obliged your insults with an appropriate post giving you the same back. In the past I have (perhaps foolishly) responded to an insult with an appropriate (and justifiable) response however, the other member has then gone and deleted his insults and runs off crying to the mods after trapping my post. Unfortunately for me i have either not trapped their insulting post before responding or, have only an edited post to trap due to time differences.

So unbeknownst to me the poster then runs crying to the mods after cleverly trapping my post knowing there is no evidence in any of their posts the mod can put back on them, so then i get knocked out of the game and/or have all my posts deleted and they are left smelling like an innocent rose. Then when members then go back over the thread to see what all the fuss was about they look at the evidence and fairly deduce i'm the perpetrator when in fact i was the victim. That's happened to me a few times now and more often than not it's from certain pets on this forum that don't like their BS being called out.

So if you are saying now Can you are a pet or one of the elite untouchables that can play by a different set of rules than every other member i'm not impressed to hear that and i truly hope you play by the same rules as all of us have to.....but without the clever games of course.

Double standards will always bring about trouble from those that don't enjoy the same protections so i put it to you if you want me to play by the rules then you should also play by the same rules and not expect favoritism from the mods for whatever reason. I have not called your insults in to the mods and don't plan to because i hate working like that. But if you run off crying making stuff up about me then i will have to use the derogatory and inflammatory remarks you made to me so i can defend myself. That's the reason why i have kept them.

Now you say i comment on things i know nothing about and that is completely untrue. I have acquired a great deal of industry knowledge in a range of areas over my life time exposure in the automotive industry (quite possibly more than most here on certain things). I also hold close associations with many of the top OEMS and I believe I know my stuff when i post info. That said i live and learn and if I don't know something it's only a phone call or email away from someone i hold association with or have access to.Needless to say i have my own extensive knowledge and training. So when i comes down to product quality and manufacturing, determining the differences in automotive components, i generally know what i'm on about when i open my mouth. I certainly don't make fleeting statements as you are trying to have some here believe i do. If you feel i am incorrect on anything i have said in my posts on your thread i would like for you to explain why. But again that's your call because there is always that risk i will reply you with something you may really not want pointed out on your thread.

Again Can, I wish to oblige your request not to post in your threads but if you keep asking me questions or drawing me back in i will respond out of manners. Same if i hear any false or incorrect information or advice being claimed by anyone or anything false said about me. And i'm not sure what all of this "kidding" you keep going on about. You either mean something or you don't.

Good day.