Review of Cargraphic Loud exhaust & an audiophile's guide :-) to exhaust auditioning.
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Jan Pat, sorry you did not run across this outstanding audiophile 
thread. I mentioned this issue on the first page I believe. There is one situation that I would recommend that buyers stay away from medium loud exhaust, and that is yours: An automatic Turbo. In a tiptronic Turbo, you can't control the cruising rpm, and if you (generic you) cruise at the rpm of 2000-2800, you are dead duck. In this situation, I would recommend any number of quieter exhausts, such as Cargraphic Quiet (TUV version), EP1, Tubi.
The only problem with getting a quiet exhaust, is of course, it's quiet and tends to have very little to non existing deep throat rumble. Inside cabin, you would hear even less. If that's your preference, great. If not, it's a waste of money and you will forever yearn for more exciting or louder sound.
Vendors sometimes would scream: "loud, deep throaty sounding, NO drone" to sell products, but the knowledgeable ones will know that no such thing exists, and that if you want a loud, exciting exhaust, it might be a problem with automatic Turbo's if you cruise at 2500 rpm; better off staying with a more quiet exhaust in this situation.
BTW, there is an explanation for why a loud exhaust is expected to drone more in the 2500 rpm range. How does a loud, deep throaty exhaust become loud? By blocking less sound: blocking less the deep throaty component and letting it through, blocking less the drone component and letting it through. This is the reason why one should never believe any salesman (kidding, kidding
) screaming "loud exhaust, deep throaty sound, no drone." I wouldn't until I hear one in person and I bet I would a crack in the sales pitch; exhaust design has been around for years and I don't expect anyone to break the law of physics ;-).
thread. I mentioned this issue on the first page I believe. There is one situation that I would recommend that buyers stay away from medium loud exhaust, and that is yours: An automatic Turbo. In a tiptronic Turbo, you can't control the cruising rpm, and if you (generic you) cruise at the rpm of 2000-2800, you are dead duck. In this situation, I would recommend any number of quieter exhausts, such as Cargraphic Quiet (TUV version), EP1, Tubi. The only problem with getting a quiet exhaust, is of course, it's quiet and tends to have very little to non existing deep throat rumble. Inside cabin, you would hear even less. If that's your preference, great. If not, it's a waste of money and you will forever yearn for more exciting or louder sound.
Vendors sometimes would scream: "loud, deep throaty sounding, NO drone" to sell products, but the knowledgeable ones will know that no such thing exists, and that if you want a loud, exciting exhaust, it might be a problem with automatic Turbo's if you cruise at 2500 rpm; better off staying with a more quiet exhaust in this situation.
BTW, there is an explanation for why a loud exhaust is expected to drone more in the 2500 rpm range. How does a loud, deep throaty exhaust become loud? By blocking less sound: blocking less the deep throaty component and letting it through, blocking less the drone component and letting it through. This is the reason why one should never believe any salesman (kidding, kidding
) screaming "loud exhaust, deep throaty sound, no drone." I wouldn't until I hear one in person and I bet I would a crack in the sales pitch; exhaust design has been around for years and I don't expect anyone to break the law of physics ;-).
Last edited by cannga; Oct 9, 2013 at 10:05 PM.
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Ryem3, Conrad, recently switched to the Kline and he loves it!
Clean sound, doesn't drone or sound like a dump truck on startup. He showed it to me and the quality is very good. If it was German, it would be perfect These vendors need to realize that they are no longer selling exhaust for 150k cars, the avg selling price is in the 70s, so the cost of parts needs to come down as well.
Clean sound, doesn't drone or sound like a dump truck on startup. He showed it to me and the quality is very good. If it was German, it would be perfect
These vendors need to realize that they are no longer selling exhaust for 150k cars, the avg selling price is in the 70s, so the cost of parts needs to come down as well.
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I'm aware of the costs, but there is also a tremendous profit margin as well. I think the prices are all about 15-25% inflated currently. It's all supply and demand, right now I think the market is prime for a 3k-ish nice exhaust. I think if EP reduced the price of the ep1 to ~3600, he'd sell more than he could make, and probably still make a decent margin on volume alone.
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Jan Pat, sorry you did not run across this outstanding audiophile thread. I mentioned this issue on the first page I believe. There is one situation that I would recommend that buyers stay away from medium loud exhaust, and that is yours: An automatic Turbo. In a tiptronic Turbo, you can't control the cruising rpm, and if you (generic you) cruise at the rpm of 2000-2800, you are dead duck. In this situation, I would recommend any number of quieter exhausts, such as Cargraphic Quiet (TUV version), EP1, Tubi.
The only problem with getting a quiet exhaust, is of course, it's quiet and tends to have very little to non existing deep throat rumble. Inside cabin, you would hear even less. If that's your preference, great. If not, it's a waste of money and you will forever yearn for more exciting or louder sound.
Vendors sometimes would scream: "loud, deep throaty sounding, NO drone" to sell products, but the knowledgeable ones will know that no such thing exists, and that if you want a loud, exciting exhaust, it might be a problem with automatic Turbo's if you cruise at 2500 rpm; better off staying with a more quiet exhaust in this situation.
BTW, there is an explanation for why a loud exhaust is expected to drone more in the 2500 rpm range. How does a loud, deep throaty exhaust become loud? By blocking less sound: blocking less the deep throaty component and letting it through, blocking less the drone component and letting it through. This is the reason why one should never believe any salesman (kidding, kidding) screaming "loud exhaust, deep throaty sound, no drone." I wouldn't until I hear one in person and I bet I would a crack in the sales pitch; exhaust design has been around for years and I don't expect anyone to break the law of physics ;-).
thread. I mentioned this issue on the first page I believe. There is one situation that I would recommend that buyers stay away from medium loud exhaust, and that is yours: An automatic Turbo. In a tiptronic Turbo, you can't control the cruising rpm, and if you (generic you) cruise at the rpm of 2000-2800, you are dead duck. In this situation, I would recommend any number of quieter exhausts, such as Cargraphic Quiet (TUV version), EP1, Tubi. The only problem with getting a quiet exhaust, is of course, it's quiet and tends to have very little to non existing deep throat rumble. Inside cabin, you would hear even less. If that's your preference, great. If not, it's a waste of money and you will forever yearn for more exciting or louder sound.
Vendors sometimes would scream: "loud, deep throaty sounding, NO drone" to sell products, but the knowledgeable ones will know that no such thing exists, and that if you want a loud, exciting exhaust, it might be a problem with automatic Turbo's if you cruise at 2500 rpm; better off staying with a more quiet exhaust in this situation.
BTW, there is an explanation for why a loud exhaust is expected to drone more in the 2500 rpm range. How does a loud, deep throaty exhaust become loud? By blocking less sound: blocking less the deep throaty component and letting it through, blocking less the drone component and letting it through. This is the reason why one should never believe any salesman (kidding, kidding
) screaming "loud exhaust, deep throaty sound, no drone." I wouldn't until I hear one in person and I bet I would a crack in the sales pitch; exhaust design has been around for years and I don't expect anyone to break the law of physics ;-).Regards,
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Manufactures can MAYBE do that, but once you have manufacture and dealers, both have to make money, shipping from Europe, import taxes etc. Everything adds up. Bottom line is the profit margins are not as high as you may think. The sales volume for those cars are also not that high. Wish it was that simple. In order to have a good product with a good dealer network, you need to provide good service, support and of course make sure your dealers are also happy with their margins, otherwise they will push something else. Bottom line is good quality product is just not cheap, maybe little adjustments here and there, but 25% off, sometimes that's the complete mark up for a dealer, if they are lucky, it's just not realistic.
Payroll, rent, insurance, materials, researches, shipping, taxes... I don't even know how they can stay in business....
What's funny is when you see some cheap copies made in China (like Agency Power), trying to go for the same price as the original products....
I know when we talk about exhausts for sport cars is not different than when we talk about Football but I don't remember reading ANY good reviews for Agency Power..
:-/
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I'm aware of the costs, but there is also a tremendous profit margin as well. I think the prices are all about 15-25% inflated currently. It's all supply and demand, right now I think the market is prime for a 3k-ish nice exhaust. I think if EP reduced the price of the ep1 to ~3600, he'd sell more than he could make, and probably still make a decent margin on volume alone.
Everything adds up. Bottom line is the profit margins are not as high as you may think.
The sales volume for those cars are also not that high. Wish it was that simple.
In order to have a good product with a good dealer network, you need to provide good service, support and of course make sure your dealers are also happy with their margins, otherwise they will push something else.
Bottom line is good quality product is just not cheap, maybe little adjustments here and there, but 25% off, sometimes that's the complete mark up for a dealer, if they are lucky, it's just not realistic.
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Sorry if I've missed any discussion on how Kline keeps cost down. It has to be something significant. Is it by manufacturing in Asia? Who makes the CAT and core inside? There is a Kline Innovation seller on ebay by the name of Top Gear and there is some mentioning of manufacturing in Thailand. Is it correct?
>>>>>>
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kline-Inno...-/310541724448
We currently have own unique Asian Exhaust manufacturing facility in Thailand.