APR Tuning
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Hopefully i will dyno my car next week on the same dyno as my previous 996TT was dynoed (mustang AWHP)...However,I would appreciate if APR had volunteered to pay the cost of the dyno because I am not really mad about numbers,i just enjoy my car overtaking other 997TTs!!!
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Your 60-130 time is remarkable. Has it been verified? No offence intended at all and I'm sure you'll understand the skepticism since there are cars with 700 crank hp and upgraded turbos that don't hit mid 6's. You've managed to do it with just software and exhaust and intake.
The kind of data I'm looking for from ANY tuner is a dyno graph, 0-60, 0-100, 60-130 (or 100-200km/h). Then I'm also looking for user feedback. I don't think that's unreasonable considering a few gs are involved. I understand that there is a 30day trial offered and that's certainly very nice but it's not enough to convince me to try it to test for driveability. If I'm flashing my car then it's for keeps, and it'll take some data AND references to get my wallet opened.
The kind of data I'm looking for from ANY tuner is a dyno graph, 0-60, 0-100, 60-130 (or 100-200km/h). Then I'm also looking for user feedback. I don't think that's unreasonable considering a few gs are involved. I understand that there is a 30day trial offered and that's certainly very nice but it's not enough to convince me to try it to test for driveability. If I'm flashing my car then it's for keeps, and it'll take some data AND references to get my wallet opened.
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Your 60-130 time is remarkable. Has it been verified? No offence intended at all and I'm sure you'll understand the skepticism since there are cars with 700 crank hp and upgraded turbos that don't hit mid 6's. You've managed to do it with just software and exhaust and intake.
The kind of data I'm looking for from ANY tuner is a dyno graph, 0-60, 0-100, 60-130 (or 100-200km/h). Then I'm also looking for user feedback. I don't think that's unreasonable considering a few gs are involved. I understand that there is a 30day trial offered and that's certainly very nice but it's not enough to convince me to try it to test for driveability. If I'm flashing my car then it's for keeps, and it'll take some data AND references to get my wallet opened.
The kind of data I'm looking for from ANY tuner is a dyno graph, 0-60, 0-100, 60-130 (or 100-200km/h). Then I'm also looking for user feedback. I don't think that's unreasonable considering a few gs are involved. I understand that there is a 30day trial offered and that's certainly very nice but it's not enough to convince me to try it to test for driveability. If I'm flashing my car then it's for keeps, and it'll take some data AND references to get my wallet opened.
APR has a dyno graph on their website. Torque numbers look pretty remarkable.
-Getz
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I don't work for APR so you may wish to email them your question. However, they include a comparison dyno of stock, and the gains look impressive. I could care less about dyno numbers anyway, it would be nice to see some 1/4 times with trap speed.
-Getz
-Getz
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We already have a verified 60-130 run from skandalis of 6.48 seconds, I'm not sure what more a trap speed going to tell you.It would be interesting to know if the dyno graph posted on APRs website comes from a chassis dyno, or was it reproduced as a composite graph.
Last edited by bbywu; May 28, 2010 at 04:28 PM.
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I believe I am the right guy to speak for my car...regarding startup noise for half second,it has nothing to do with my car,but it was oil related...as I ve stated on another thread,my car did this noise when I switched oil from another importer/distributer here in Greece...i switched oil again from another importer of Mobil 1 and the noise dissapeared...Sample of my oil has been sent to Blackstone labs in order to examine and analyse it...of course in case this sample does not correspond to Mobil 1 0/40 I will press charges against specific oil importer here...So startup noise has nothing to do with software,the car did not have any noise before this specific oil change and does not have any noise after this oil was removed...
APR has excellent software...I am an electronic engineer as well and run my own programming company here...I did tailor tuned my 996TT and made it extremely fast...But I was not able to create something better for my 997TT than APR...i drive my car 250miles per week and the car runs flawless...It could not be any better...
APR has excellent software...I am an electronic engineer as well and run my own programming company here...I did tailor tuned my 996TT and made it extremely fast...But I was not able to create something better for my 997TT than APR...i drive my car 250miles per week and the car runs flawless...It could not be any better...
Hello there...i bought my car with 23500km...Previous owner used mobil1 0/40 until 20000km (he changer them at 7,14)and then replaced them with redline 5/40...i switched back to mobil 0/40 at 26000km,two weeks ago...The problem is tha when i start the car after a few days of garage sitting it makes a horrible noise (probably from lifters?)such as there is no oil for about 1/3 of a second and then oil pressure goes up and the noise stops...engine is running fine...With redline this noise did not happen...any ideas?
P.S. the car has almost no oil consumption...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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You were the one who referenced the APR dyno from their website, and now you don't care about the dyno numbers? We already have a verified 60-130 run from skandalis of 6.48 seconds, I'm not sure what more a trap speed going to tell you.
It would be interesting to know if the dyno graph posted on APRs website comes from a chassis dyno, or was it reproduced as a composite graph.
We already have a verified 60-130 run from skandalis of 6.48 seconds, I'm not sure what more a trap speed going to tell you.It would be interesting to know if the dyno graph posted on APRs website comes from a chassis dyno, or was it reproduced as a composite graph.
Whoa big fella. If you read my post, I am simply answering a question inquiring about a dyno of the APR flash (which APR has on their site). This implies no preference on my part. 60-130 runs are left to the interpretation of the tester, were I can easily look at a trap speed on a timeslip and know that many of the variables from the 60-130 times have been eliminated by the track timer.
-Getz
Last edited by getz; May 28, 2010 at 05:26 PM.
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Whoa big fella. If you read my post, I am simply answering a question inquiring about a dyno of the APR flash (which APR has on their site). This implies no preference on my part. 60-130 runs are left to the interpretation of the tester, were I can easily look at a trap speed on a timeslip and know that many of the variables from the 60-130 times have been eliminated by the track timer.
-Getz
-Getz
You referenced APR's dyno on their website. My response is that the graph was produced from composite data, and not an actual dyno run. I am unaware of any dynamometer that prints a graph like the one that is posted on APR's site.
I agree with you about trap speed. However, there is nothing really to interpret in this datalog.
Last edited by bbywu; May 28, 2010 at 05:40 PM.
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[quote=skandalis447;2856029]I believe I am the right guy to speak for my car...regarding startup noise for half second,it has nothing to do with my car,but it was oil related...as I ve stated on another thread,my car did this noise when I switched oil from another importer/distributer here in Greece...i switched oil again from another importer of Mobil 1 and the noise dissapeared...Sample of my oil has been sent to Blackstone labs in order to examine and analyse it...of course in case this sample does not correspond to Mobil 1 0/40 I will press charges against specific oil importer here...So startup noise has nothing to do with software,the car did not have any noise before this specific oil change and does not have any noise after this oil was removed...
quote]
Skandalis I think its far too premature to discount the problem not being associated to the tune untill you have the final results from the oil analysis. You have afterall been giving your car a fair old work out I understand (from reading some of your earlier posts).
I am sure everyone here will also be interested in those findings regarding the engine wear material present so please keep us all posted on that thanks. You obviously have concerns Skandalis or you wouldnt have sent off for an oil sample analysis to begin with and I hope for your sake it is just the oil but i seriously doubt it as heavier weight oil usually makes the engine run quieter. You'd also have a big problem suing the oil company or supplier given that your engine has a tune (not standard) so any damage would be strenuously defended and as there is no feedback out there (other than your own) to support any argument that the tune doesnt cause damage (with execption of one or two reported users that may not wish to get involved) i suspect you will be on your own there.
Granted they may be making the lion share of their profits through other VW and Audi tunes but that still doesnt answer for why they havent managed to get their 997tt tune into the market 2 years on.
[quote=GMP - Matthew;2856153]
Like I said we are willing to send out our computer to anyone willing to try it out for 30 days risk free and they can do their own testing.
Great...but weve covered this point and the offer doesnt seem to be getting too many 9977tt owners hot and bothered. No point banging on with an offer that isnt producing sales results.
As for now we are still trying to explore opportunites to get some numbers that the forum so desperately craves. Until then the 30 day money back offer is open for everyone
I wouldnt say "craves" at all Matthew, moreso what the customers "expect". I honestly dont think any 997tt owner could give a flying continental sausage whether APR ever gets its **** together as there are enough really good offerings already on the market that have been tried proven and tested in large numbers to choose from.
Its really in APR's best interest, not the customers, to get their product out there. Obviously what ever they are currently doing isnt doing the trick and again, its not wise to bang ones head against the wall. If they offset their huge advertising and marketing expenses against providing a super competitive discounted pricing structure then they might start yeilding some decent sales results that would warrant all the hours, time and energy they supposedly put into the development of the 997tt tune.
As far as reliability goes, how many miles is considered reliable? 5000, 10000 100000? All I can say is that I think one of my clients has hit 10k miles plus. He is active on here his name is TJCLAY. Shoot him a PM.
10K miles is really nothing to write home about. A P engine should run up to at least 200,000 + (maybe even 300,000+) if its serviced and driven properly. In so far as what is an acceptable period of reliabilty, i would estimate at least 160,000kms +. Afterall the tune is supposed to be tapping into the unused wealth of the engine without causing issues.
However, if the tune is such that it has turned the engine into a "sparkler" then its a very expensive tune. This is where a volume of user reviews and experiences would serve to instil confidence into the minds of potential purchasers.
I have a local silent reader on here that doesn't have time really for forum chat but he has had the software for a year now and runs nothing but 100 octane. Probably has 5k miles on it and just ran 6 20 minute 2.3 mile road course sessions at carolina motorsports park in Kershaw, SC and didn't have a single problem. He doesn't jus take it out either on the weekends to go out to dinner, he takes it out religiously on his back roads and beats the **** out of it and it just keeps asking for more.
The problem with silent users Matthew is that most customers would see them as being merely ficticious pawns. This is where you need to have a lot of users to draw upon for references. And, usually satisfied purchasers/users are anxious to volunteer their joyfull experiences and "share their exitement with the world". Unsatisfied ones usually keep it to themselves as they dont want to broadcast their foolish mistakes. It could well be that while some things are good there are also a lot of things that are not so good too.. so dont wish to offer recommendations to others etc.
Only thing we have swapped out was for the sachs stage 2 clutch upgrade and the GT2 slave conversion for a stronger hold and more consistant clutch engagement.
Matthew I know i covered this with you on the suitablity of the stock clutch but possibly APR needs to package up their 997tt with a stage 2 clutch kit.
Im not sure if Skandalis also has tiptronic gearbox slippage issues or was that someone else? Maybe a Gearbox kit to be packaged up here too...
I think all tunes (APR and others) should always advise/pre warn the purchaser of resultant component failures and allow the purchaser to be aware prior too so to factor in any additional expense requirements.
Thats a reasonable request given the Global exposure Skandali has given APR as basically their solo tune user prepared to sing its praises. When you look at all the APR glossy page adverts that no doubt cost big $ Skandalis's request is very reasonable imo.
I dont wish to labour the point Matthew but really.... need i say more on this?
[quote=TTdude;2856511]Of course you would know your car better than anyone else. That was not my point. I was going off what you stated in your other thread (copied below) which is the prior owner (with APR tune) switched to redline 5/40 after 14000 km. Why did he switch? Was he having start-up noise also? When you switched back to Mobil 1 0/40 you heard the noise. Now you've switched to another version of Mobil 1 of unspecified weight and the noise has disappeared. If you are hearing start-up engine noise with Mobil 1 0/40, then I think you have some problems. I can let my car sit for 2 weeks with no start-up noise whatsoever.
Skandalis:-
Hello there...i bought my car with 23500km...Previous owner used mobil1 0/40 until 20000km (he changer them at 7,14)and then replaced them with redline 5/40...i switched back to mobil 0/40 at 26000km,two weeks ago...The problem is tha when i start the car after a few days of garage sitting it makes a horrible noise (probably from lifters?)such as there is no oil for about 1/3 of a second and then oil pressure goes up and the noise stops...engine is running fine...With redline this noise did not happen...any ideas?
P.S. the car has almost no oil consumption...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->[/quote]
An extremely valid point TT!! It doesnt make any sense why Skandalis is now being defensive over his previous remarks.
LMAO
You are being very cheeky Karim .
quote]
Skandalis I think its far too premature to discount the problem not being associated to the tune untill you have the final results from the oil analysis. You have afterall been giving your car a fair old work out I understand (from reading some of your earlier posts).
I am sure everyone here will also be interested in those findings regarding the engine wear material present so please keep us all posted on that thanks. You obviously have concerns Skandalis or you wouldnt have sent off for an oil sample analysis to begin with and I hope for your sake it is just the oil but i seriously doubt it as heavier weight oil usually makes the engine run quieter. You'd also have a big problem suing the oil company or supplier given that your engine has a tune (not standard) so any damage would be strenuously defended and as there is no feedback out there (other than your own) to support any argument that the tune doesnt cause damage (with execption of one or two reported users that may not wish to get involved) i suspect you will be on your own there.
If only you guys could realize how much APR has on their plate right now you guys would understand that the Porsche market can't even come close to how much revenue VW/Audi brings in for them.
So what you are saying..APR is prepared to throw countless hours away developing their 997tt tune without any thought or care of recovering costs and showing a return on investment? Doesnt make any sense.
They have several R&D projects already going on at the same time it's incredible. Between a supercharger kit for the RS4, doing the tuning calibrations for Hennessy's R8 Twin Turbo kits, servicing 3 race teams in between races, developing the new 3.0T Audi set up which now can be found in the new S4, A6, and future platforms yet to come. And that is just the stuff they have on their plate for the USA. They plan on sending. their team of engineers again overseas to do some more tuning on the new platforms coming out that are specific to their countries as they have dealers world wide.
Thats great but why bother spending time on anything if you dont wind up doing anything with it profitablity wise (997tt tune). Surely they arent just doing all this for love.
So what you are saying..APR is prepared to throw countless hours away developing their 997tt tune without any thought or care of recovering costs and showing a return on investment? Doesnt make any sense.
They have several R&D projects already going on at the same time it's incredible. Between a supercharger kit for the RS4, doing the tuning calibrations for Hennessy's R8 Twin Turbo kits, servicing 3 race teams in between races, developing the new 3.0T Audi set up which now can be found in the new S4, A6, and future platforms yet to come. And that is just the stuff they have on their plate for the USA. They plan on sending. their team of engineers again overseas to do some more tuning on the new platforms coming out that are specific to their countries as they have dealers world wide.
Thats great but why bother spending time on anything if you dont wind up doing anything with it profitablity wise (997tt tune). Surely they arent just doing all this for love.
[quote=GMP - Matthew;2856153]
Like I said we are willing to send out our computer to anyone willing to try it out for 30 days risk free and they can do their own testing.
Great...but weve covered this point and the offer doesnt seem to be getting too many 9977tt owners hot and bothered. No point banging on with an offer that isnt producing sales results.
As for now we are still trying to explore opportunites to get some numbers that the forum so desperately craves. Until then the 30 day money back offer is open for everyone
I wouldnt say "craves" at all Matthew, moreso what the customers "expect". I honestly dont think any 997tt owner could give a flying continental sausage whether APR ever gets its **** together as there are enough really good offerings already on the market that have been tried proven and tested in large numbers to choose from.
Its really in APR's best interest, not the customers, to get their product out there. Obviously what ever they are currently doing isnt doing the trick and again, its not wise to bang ones head against the wall. If they offset their huge advertising and marketing expenses against providing a super competitive discounted pricing structure then they might start yeilding some decent sales results that would warrant all the hours, time and energy they supposedly put into the development of the 997tt tune.
As far as reliability goes, how many miles is considered reliable? 5000, 10000 100000? All I can say is that I think one of my clients has hit 10k miles plus. He is active on here his name is TJCLAY. Shoot him a PM.
10K miles is really nothing to write home about. A P engine should run up to at least 200,000 + (maybe even 300,000+) if its serviced and driven properly. In so far as what is an acceptable period of reliabilty, i would estimate at least 160,000kms +. Afterall the tune is supposed to be tapping into the unused wealth of the engine without causing issues.
However, if the tune is such that it has turned the engine into a "sparkler" then its a very expensive tune. This is where a volume of user reviews and experiences would serve to instil confidence into the minds of potential purchasers.
I have a local silent reader on here that doesn't have time really for forum chat but he has had the software for a year now and runs nothing but 100 octane. Probably has 5k miles on it and just ran 6 20 minute 2.3 mile road course sessions at carolina motorsports park in Kershaw, SC and didn't have a single problem. He doesn't jus take it out either on the weekends to go out to dinner, he takes it out religiously on his back roads and beats the **** out of it and it just keeps asking for more.
The problem with silent users Matthew is that most customers would see them as being merely ficticious pawns. This is where you need to have a lot of users to draw upon for references. And, usually satisfied purchasers/users are anxious to volunteer their joyfull experiences and "share their exitement with the world". Unsatisfied ones usually keep it to themselves as they dont want to broadcast their foolish mistakes. It could well be that while some things are good there are also a lot of things that are not so good too.. so dont wish to offer recommendations to others etc.
Only thing we have swapped out was for the sachs stage 2 clutch upgrade and the GT2 slave conversion for a stronger hold and more consistant clutch engagement.
Im not sure if Skandalis also has tiptronic gearbox slippage issues or was that someone else? Maybe a Gearbox kit to be packaged up here too...
I think all tunes (APR and others) should always advise/pre warn the purchaser of resultant component failures and allow the purchaser to be aware prior too so to factor in any additional expense requirements.
[quote=TTdude;2856511]Of course you would know your car better than anyone else. That was not my point. I was going off what you stated in your other thread (copied below) which is the prior owner (with APR tune) switched to redline 5/40 after 14000 km. Why did he switch? Was he having start-up noise also? When you switched back to Mobil 1 0/40 you heard the noise. Now you've switched to another version of Mobil 1 of unspecified weight and the noise has disappeared. If you are hearing start-up engine noise with Mobil 1 0/40, then I think you have some problems. I can let my car sit for 2 weeks with no start-up noise whatsoever.
Skandalis:-
Hello there...i bought my car with 23500km...Previous owner used mobil1 0/40 until 20000km (he changer them at 7,14)and then replaced them with redline 5/40...i switched back to mobil 0/40 at 26000km,two weeks ago...The problem is tha when i start the car after a few days of garage sitting it makes a horrible noise (probably from lifters?)such as there is no oil for about 1/3 of a second and then oil pressure goes up and the noise stops...engine is running fine...With redline this noise did not happen...any ideas?
P.S. the car has almost no oil consumption...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->[/quote]
An extremely valid point TT!! It doesnt make any sense why Skandalis is now being defensive over his previous remarks.
LMAO
You are being very cheeky Karim .
Last edited by speed21; May 28, 2010 at 09:31 PM.
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I trust a good ole' fashion trap speed more than all these gps performance recording boxes :P Or I at least can somewhat estimate hp with the trap far more easily.
-Getz
-Getz
Last edited by getz; May 28, 2010 at 08:13 PM.
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Thanks again Skandalis
Hopefully i will dyno my car next week on the same dyno as my previous 996TT was dynoed (mustang AWHP)...However,I would appreciate if APR had volunteered to pay the cost of the dyno because I am not really mad about numbers,i just enjoy my car overtaking other 997TTs!!!
I agree. It would be nice if APR would chip in with the cost. Our world unofficial APR representative for the 997tt, Skandalis is going above and beyond in his pursuence of an answer for us all. Thanks Skandalis, its appreciated.
Hows about some initiative Matthew !
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To think poor Skandalis has been hammering away at promoting the APR tune all on his own without any support whatsoever is mean, especially given that he now may well of caused damage to his engine in the process of his trials.
And Skandali's, its really an opportunity missed if you didnt send that heavier oil that you originally changed for an oil sample analysis. That would have given a very good snapshot of whats been going on inside your engine. I believe the oil you've now sent (the oil that bought about your initial concerns) has not been in your engine long enough to be able to provide an accurate evaluation regarding component wear. It may well provide an answer to what the oil actually is but thats about it.
Let us all know the findings though please....you never know what they may find in it.