1st High-Powered (Ethanol) E85 Porsche 997 Turbo by Prototech & Protomotive
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,015
From: MN
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Awesome info!
After running E85 in my last 2 cars I love it vs. race or pump
The problem with running e85 here in Michigan is that it is only E85 during 1 month of the year (July). In the winter it is E70 & changes in spring to 75,80,85 then back again in the fall.
Here is a chart for all of the states: http://www.e85mustangs.com/regions123.html
So 2 options?:
1. Tune with e70 & run it that way all of the time so tune has a built in "safe" level (only problem is your leaving extra power on the table when it switches to anything above e70)
2. Have an ethanol content sensor wired into a standalone ECU that switches maps based on ethanol content (anybody dealt with this or something similar? ideas?)
Thanks!
Frank
After running E85 in my last 2 cars I love it vs. race or pump
The problem with running e85 here in Michigan is that it is only E85 during 1 month of the year (July). In the winter it is E70 & changes in spring to 75,80,85 then back again in the fall.
Here is a chart for all of the states: http://www.e85mustangs.com/regions123.html
So 2 options?:
1. Tune with e70 & run it that way all of the time so tune has a built in "safe" level (only problem is your leaving extra power on the table when it switches to anything above e70)
2. Have an ethanol content sensor wired into a standalone ECU that switches maps based on ethanol content (anybody dealt with this or something similar? ideas?)
Thanks!
Frank
How much of a real difference between E85 and E70 when it comes to tuning and power?
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 224
From: Fort Lauderdale Florida
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In south Florida, E85 is available all year round.
If there are slight variances in fuel quality, the factory 997tt ECU has the ability to make up to 25% positive and negative compensation across Long Term & Short Term Fuel Trims.
I had the same concern myself and I began testing E85 with a ethanol potentancy tester for 4 months now nearly every time I have filled up. The quality is always atleast 85% ethanol many times it looks to be around 90%+.
If you are forced to deal with E70, I am sure you know just as well as I, the best thing to do is to keep the boost at a mild setting and try to data log the differences between the two fuels. If they are not that dramtically different the ECU should be able to compensate enough for the change in quality.
But to know for sure, it would need to be tested
Keith
If there are slight variances in fuel quality, the factory 997tt ECU has the ability to make up to 25% positive and negative compensation across Long Term & Short Term Fuel Trims.
I had the same concern myself and I began testing E85 with a ethanol potentancy tester for 4 months now nearly every time I have filled up. The quality is always atleast 85% ethanol many times it looks to be around 90%+.
If you are forced to deal with E70, I am sure you know just as well as I, the best thing to do is to keep the boost at a mild setting and try to data log the differences between the two fuels. If they are not that dramtically different the ECU should be able to compensate enough for the change in quality.
But to know for sure, it would need to be tested
Keith
Thx
This has been the biggest concern I have about E85 out of the pump. In Minnesota there is only 1 month that is considered 100% summer blend and that is still not guaranteed E85 - just E79.
How much of a real difference between E85 and E70 when it comes to tuning and power?
This has been the biggest concern I have about E85 out of the pump. In Minnesota there is only 1 month that is considered 100% summer blend and that is still not guaranteed E85 - just E79.
How much of a real difference between E85 and E70 when it comes to tuning and power?
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Joined: Sep 2007
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From: so cal
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the only station in l.a. is conserv fuel in brentwood on san vicente.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,015
From: MN
Rep Power: 277
In south Florida, E85 is available all year round.
If there are slight variances in fuel quality, the factory 997tt ECU has the ability to make up to 25% positive and negative compensation across Long Term & Short Term Fuel Trims.
I had the same concern myself and I began testing E85 with a ethanol potentancy tester for 4 months now nearly every time I have filled up. The quality is always atleast 85% ethanol many times it looks to be around 90%+.
If you are forced to deal with E70, I am sure you know just as well as I, the best thing to do is to keep the boost at a mild setting and try to data log the differences between the two fuels. If they are not that dramtically different the ECU should be able to compensate enough for the change in quality.
But to know for sure, it would need to be tested
Keith
If there are slight variances in fuel quality, the factory 997tt ECU has the ability to make up to 25% positive and negative compensation across Long Term & Short Term Fuel Trims.
I had the same concern myself and I began testing E85 with a ethanol potentancy tester for 4 months now nearly every time I have filled up. The quality is always atleast 85% ethanol many times it looks to be around 90%+.
If you are forced to deal with E70, I am sure you know just as well as I, the best thing to do is to keep the boost at a mild setting and try to data log the differences between the two fuels. If they are not that dramtically different the ECU should be able to compensate enough for the change in quality.
But to know for sure, it would need to be tested
Keith
Where did you get the tester. It's not like I'll be driving the GT2 in the winter up here anyhow. With only 1 month of #1 blend , 2 months of a 1-2 blend and one month of 2 I'll need to do some testing.
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Registered User
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 224
From: Fort Lauderdale Florida
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http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...q=e85+test+kit
Look through the Google search link above. I dont recall which site I picked it up through though. I paid maybe $20.
Keith
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Registered User
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 224
From: Fort Lauderdale Florida
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Just throught some of you with less extreme setups may want to know this:
Before diving deep into this project, we first set out to find out the upper limits of the 80 lb injectors that were in place in my car. With my gt3076 turbos on a completely stock fuel system, Todd designed an E85 tune that allowed us to run up to 1.2 bar of boost before we ran out of injector.
Todd has since made a few adjustments to the file and now has a setup that can run atleast 1.4 bar+ on 997s running the VTG turbos using the same 80 lb injectors. Should be the perfect setup for cars with basic to moderate mods with minimal changes to the factory fuel system.
In conversation, Todd mentioned that while remotely tuning some 997tt's, he had come across data logs of some cars out in California and some other areas that were showing a meager 0-5 degrees total timing at WOT due to the low grade 91 octane thats available in certain locations.
Because of fuel quality, some modded 997tt's cant even get out of the upper 400 whp range. By switching over to e85, people in locations that only have access to 91 octane can realize 600 whp numbers by running E85 without making any other changes. Power increases are linked to the cooling effects of ethanol and from the factory DME automatically bumping timing numbers dramatically.
If youre not sure if E85 is available in your area, check out www.e85fuel.com and click on your state for a list of stations that carry it.
Before diving deep into this project, we first set out to find out the upper limits of the 80 lb injectors that were in place in my car. With my gt3076 turbos on a completely stock fuel system, Todd designed an E85 tune that allowed us to run up to 1.2 bar of boost before we ran out of injector.
Todd has since made a few adjustments to the file and now has a setup that can run atleast 1.4 bar+ on 997s running the VTG turbos using the same 80 lb injectors. Should be the perfect setup for cars with basic to moderate mods with minimal changes to the factory fuel system.
In conversation, Todd mentioned that while remotely tuning some 997tt's, he had come across data logs of some cars out in California and some other areas that were showing a meager 0-5 degrees total timing at WOT due to the low grade 91 octane thats available in certain locations.
Because of fuel quality, some modded 997tt's cant even get out of the upper 400 whp range. By switching over to e85, people in locations that only have access to 91 octane can realize 600 whp numbers by running E85 without making any other changes. Power increases are linked to the cooling effects of ethanol and from the factory DME automatically bumping timing numbers dramatically.
If youre not sure if E85 is available in your area, check out www.e85fuel.com and click on your state for a list of stations that carry it.
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From: Coral springs, FL
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yes they are also comes with 2 pumps in the tank.